Really?  So I take it you would rather be an apologist who compromises 
your convictions in order to make your position more palatable to the 
fascist right-wingers?  Yeah, that's progress.  Beg them to like us.  I 
think not.

Elizabeth Allen wrote:
>
>
> Oh great, lets give the right wing lunatics another reason to hate on 
> progressives/liberals and moderates....great thinking their Lincoln.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Linda Ghaliyaa Richard <[email protected]>
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:18:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [bangla-vision] Should the left call for Taliban victory?
>
>  
>
> Valid points, too.  I thought of that myself - but this article is not 
> written by me.  I merely posted it.  You did realize that, didn't you?
>
> Z T Minhas wrote:
>
>> Certain people from the left should just shut the hell up....
>>
>>> AS SOCIALISTS, we support the right of oppressed peoples to fight 
>>> for self-determination unreservedly, just as we oppose imperialism, 
>>> without caveat.
>> The soviet uniuon invaded afghanistan in 1979.... not a whimper from 
>> international socialists,. .. and encouraged by Afghan communists.. ..
>>>
>>> This perspective is generally accepted by the left without question 
>>> in contexts such as Latin America or Africa, where bitter fights 
>>> against U.S. and European imperialism have been fought and, in some 
>>> cases, won.
>> But not Russian imperialism
>>>
>>> Yet, when it comes to the Middle East and Afghanistan today there is 
>>> suddenly much less clarity about what radicals and Marxists should 
>>> be saying. Nowhere is that more evident than in the case of 
>>> Afghanistan, which has suffered under the yoke of U.S. imperialism 
>>> since 2001 (with active U.S. interference in the country since at 
>>> least the 1970s).
>> Ah yes... the bastards show their true colors... Russia INVADED 
>> Afghanistn killing millions.. and American involvement in getting 
>> them out was called an interference. .. where are my brass 
>> knuckles... i need to find me a commie... especially an Afghan or 
>> Paki commie!!!
>>
>> Z T
>>
>>
>> Linda G. Richard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     Should the left call for Taliban victory?
>>>
>>>
>>> Socialist Worker
>>>
>>>
>>> AS SOCIALISTS, we support the right of oppressed peoples to fight 
>>> for self-determination unreservedly, just as we oppose imperialism, 
>>> without caveat.
>>>
>>> This perspective is generally accepted by the left without question 
>>> in contexts such as Latin America or Africa, where bitter fights 
>>> against U.S. and European imperialism have been fought and, in some 
>>> cases, won.
>>>
>>> Yet, when it comes to the Middle East and Afghanistan today there is 
>>> suddenly much less clarity about what radicals and Marxists should 
>>> be saying. Nowhere is that more evident than in the case of 
>>> Afghanistan, which has suffered under the yoke of U.S. imperialism 
>>> since 2001 (with active U.S. interference in the country since at 
>>> least the 1970s).
>>>
>>> The idea that the Taliban, as a movement fighting against U.S. 
>>> occupation, is a force we should be supporting is, unfortunately, a 
>>> somewhat controversial position to hold, even on the far left. This 
>>> is a serious mistake and speaks both to the extent to which 
>>> Islamophobia has penetrated the left, as well as to the lack of 
>>> understanding of the social dynamics of an oppressed and devastated 
>>> country like Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> We are all familiar with the lies and excuses used to justify the 
>>> invasion and occupation of Afghanistan in the wake of the September 
>>> 11 attacks.. Bush and his coterie of crooks and warmongers told us 
>>> that only a military invasion could liberate the people, and 
>>> especially the women, of Afghanistan from the brutal, misogynistic 
>>> and "medieval" Taliban movement.
>>>
>>> There was no mention, of course, of the substantial support offered 
>>> to the Taliban regime in the late 1990s when Clinton was president 
>>> and in the early days of the Bush presidency, nor of the long and 
>>> ugly history of U.S. intervention in Central and South Asia, which 
>>> was an important precondition for the rise of Islamism.
>>>
>>> We should condemn unreservedly the oppression of women and the 
>>> general social conservatism of the pre-2001 Taliban regime, as well, 
>>> of course, as their efforts to cut deals with regional and global 
>>> superpowers against the interests of the vast majority of Afghans. 
>>> However, we must also unreservedly condemn the racism and 
>>> Islamophobia used as an ideological fig leaf to justify invasion and 
>>> imperialism, and it is the left's weakness on this issue, which has 
>>> blinded many to the new realities on the ground in Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> Before addressing the important question of who the Taliban actually 
>>> are, it is important to understand the material conditions Afghans 
>>> face. Afghanistan is a devastated country. It is ranked at or near 
>>> the bottom of a broad range of social indicators, such as levels of 
>>> poverty, infant mortality, literacy, per capita income, prevalence 
>>> of easily preventable diseases and so forth. Most major cities in 
>>> Afghanistan, including the capital Kabul, are in ruins (despite 
>>> claims of "reconstruction" by NATO imperialists) and decent roads, 
>>> electricity, clean water, sanitation and basic social services are 
>>> unheard of for most of the population, especially in the rural 
>>> areas. The majority of the population ekes out a living on a 
>>> subsistence basis, and the struggle for survival is the overarching 
>>> concern for most Afghans.
>>>
>>> In a nutshell, there is no Afghan working class or progressive petit 
>>> bourgeoisie to speak of, and the major social classes (aside from 
>>> the puppet regime and it's assortment of bandits and thugs) are the 
>>> poor peasantry and the Islamic clergy..
>>>
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>> THE SIGNIFICANCE of this to a discussion of anti-imperialist 
>>> resistance in Afghanistan should be obvious to any serious 
>>> historical materialist. This question cannot be thought about in the 
>>> abstract, it must be considered in light of the material realities 
>>> on the ground. Such realities necessarily shape the kinds of social 
>>> forces and the character of class struggle in that country and make 
>>> it highly likely that any grassroots resistance will have a strongly 
>>> religious character, given that the rural clergy are the only force 
>>> capable of uniting the peasantry against the comprador ruling class.
>>>
>>> The following point cannot be stressed enough; whilst the U.S. 
>>> remains in Afghanistan, economic and social development will not 
>>> occur much beyond current levels. This in turn means that the 
>>> Taliban, as a broad-based movement of poor farmers and lower clergy, 
>>> is the face of anti-imperialist resistance in Afghanistan for the 
>>> foreseeable future.
>>>
>>> To put it another way, if we, as avowed anti-imperialists, intend to 
>>> wait around for a resistance movement that agrees with us on every 
>>> issue, including the need to fight the oppression of women, gays, 
>>> racial and religious minorities, etc., we'll be waiting a long time. 
>>> The Taliban is the resistance in Afghanistan and we must support it, 
>>> critically, but unreservedly.
>>>
>>> The Taliban that ruled Afghanistan prior to the U.S. invasion no 
>>> longer exists. The U.S. and NATO routinely refer to any act of 
>>> resistance as the work of the "Taliban" (meaning the followers of 
>>> Mullah Omar), much as every act of resistance in Iraq was the work 
>>> of "Baath loyalists."
>>>
>>> To be sure, there are attacks being carried out by people who 
>>> support the former regime, but many, perhaps most, resistance 
>>> fighters have no particular loyalty to the former leadership and 
>>> some are actively hostile to it.
>>>
>>> Anand Gopal, one of the few independent journalists actively trying 
>>> to find out what is actually happening in Afghanistan has written 
>>> some very useful and insightful work on this, and as he points out, 
>>> the ranks of the Taliban have been swelled in recent years by rural 
>>> peasants who have been radicalized as a result of US/NATO brutality, 
>>> including the indiscriminate air attacks which have killed thousands 
>>> of Afghans.
>>>
>>> The Taliban are increasingly espousing a strong nationalist message 
>>> and, in some cases, have substantially moderated their social 
>>> conservatism in order to build a more broad-based and effective 
>>> resistance movement.
>>>
>>> It is also the case that the "Taliban" is effectively a blanket term 
>>> for a coalition of groups, some drawn from the tiny strata of 
>>> educated middle class Afghans, which aim to eject foreign troops 
>>> from their country. In short, when the U.S. and its allies use the 
>>> term "Taliban" they want us to think of public stonings, music bans 
>>> and ultra-conservative clerics--and if we follow their lead we do a 
>>> grave disservice to the Afghan resistance and only help to 
>>> perpetuate Islamophobic caricatures of "crazed, bearded extremists."
>>>
>>> There is no fundamental difference between the liberation theology 
>>> movements in South America and the popular Islamist resistance 
>>> movements in the Middle East and Asia, movements such as Hezbollah, 
>>> Hamas and the Taliban. To be sure, the former were less socially 
>>> conservative, but as religiously colored grassroots resistance 
>>> movements they are essentially the same kind of manifestation of 
>>> class resistance.
>>>
>>> The left needs to ask itself why it is much more critical of Muslims 
>>> expressing class anger in a religious form than of South American 
>>> Christians; to my mind, unexamined Islamophobia explains much of 
>>> this discrepancy.
>>>
>>> Every U.S. and NATO tank that the Taliban destroy, every 
>>> Karzai-appointed stooge they assassinate and every town or village 
>>> they liberate is a victory for our side and a grievous blow to U.S. 
>>> imperialism- -we would do well to remember that and to offer our 
>>> solidarity and support for a Taliban victory in Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> Nick K., from the Internet
>>>
>>> Link: http://www.uruknet. de/?s1=1&p=57087&s2=19 
>>> <http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=57087&s2=19>.
>>> -- 
>>> Linda
>>> *http://freedetainee s.org <http://freedetainees.org/>
>>> "If we shadows have offended, Think but this,
>>> and all is mended, That you have but slumber'd
>>> here While these visions did appear..."
>>> - William Shakespeare
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Linda
> *http://freedetainee s.org <http://freedetainees.org/>
> "If we shadows have offended, Think but this,
> and all is mended, That you have but slumber'd
> here While these visions did appear..."
> - William Shakespeare
> *
>
>
>
>
> 

-- 
Linda
*http://freedetainees.org <http://freedetainees.org/>
"If we shadows have offended, Think but this,
and all is mended, That you have but slumber'd
here While these visions did appear..."
- William Shakespeare
*


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