Dear Andreas et al., Oh I don't feel like I'm in a position to interpret or assume anything about Rhetorique, La Belle Homicide, or other aspects of the subject; When Artos Mail came in and then a day later I read Bills question I simply remembered I had tried to play it myself before and had felt similar to how Arto puts it, that I had a CD called after that same piece and when I found that quote I thought it would be a nice idea or service to post that here.
Also I've got no particular interest in deeper historical research on such matters although I sometimes really like to read it. My own approach to this music is much more hands-on, just to grab a piece of tablature, and try to make sense of it is satisfying enough for me. So my intention was just to be a "mercurial" transmitter here and incidentally put only the quote there, still your remarks are an interesting read... those booklet texts often seem to be part of marketing strategy and try to mystify things, if I remember well some Hoppy liner notes really made me laugh... So I sincerely apologize if I sounded smartass, but still, just by gut feeling, expressions belle homicide and petit mort appear somehow related to me ;) Edgar Am Samstag, 10. März 2012, 18:58:29 schrieb Andreas Schlegel: > Dear Edgar, > > A very important fact for the interpretation of the "Rhétorique des > Dieux" is: Indeed Denis Gaultier is the target of the foreword, but > nothing speaks for his contribution at least for the first steps in > the execution of the manuscript's plan and in the entries of > Notator A. I'm still working on the edition of all 33 known pieces > written by Notator B of the Rhétorique (in 6 sources) and it's a > very, very tricky puzzle. We can not exclude with certitude, that > Notator B could perhaps be Denis Gaultier himself, but my personal > opinion is that this is very hardly possible. So the short form > "Denis Gaultier's Rhétorique" is simply wrong. We don't know his > role - if he really had once a role in the genesis of this > manuscript at all! > > About the 27 texts under the pieces: > François-Pierre Goy wrote an important article: Antiquité et musique > pour luth au XVIle siècle : les sources de l‘iconographie et des > arguments de la „Rhétorique des Dieux“, in: Bulletin de > l‘association Guillaume Budé, 3 (octobre) 1995, p. 263-276 > > So at least 13 texts come from contemporary editions and summaries > of antique poetry (Ovid's Metamorphose, Odes from Horaz, Plutarch > or "Cléopatre" from Gautier Coste de la Calprenède respectively, > and eventually from Homer's Odysse). It's unclear who could be the > author of the texts. There's one advice in direction of Harault > (one of the sonetts was made from Harault) because of the use of > the notation "Appolon" instead of the normal "Apollon". > > There are only a few pieces who are titled in other sources in the > same way as in the Rhétorique - and some have other titles: > Cléoparte amante = "Courante de Gautier pour la Reine de Suede" in > F-Pn Rés. 823 Artémise = "C. G sur lentree de la reine de suede > dans Paris" in A-ETgoëss II Andromède = "Tombeau de Blancrocher" in > CZ-Nlobkowitz II.Kk.80, F-Pn Rés. Vmb ms. 7, GB-Ob Ms. Mus. Sch. G > 617 and = "Lais larme de Gauttier" in PL-Kj Mus. ms. 40626 Narcisse > = "La belle ténébreuse" in D-LEm Ms. II.6.24, F-Pn Rés. 823, > Perrine "Pièces de Luth"; = "La ténébreuse" in F-B Ms. 279.153 and > F-Pn Rés. Vmb ms. 7 > > So we have to be very carefully in the interpretation of these > titles and texts from the Rhétorique. > > All the best, > > Andreas > > Am 10.03.2012 um 11:15 schrieb Edgar Aichinger: > > From the booklet of Lislevand's CD "La belle homicide": > > > > The homicide in question is indeed a very sweet one. We recall the > > words from a Dowland song: to see/to touch/to kiss/to die. > > This Grace procures the metaphorical death of the late > > Renaissance: > > the sublime ecstasy of physical love. In Gaultier's Rhetorique des > > Dieux, he adds the following text under the tablature of the > > L'homicide: > > > > (just english translation) > > This Fair Lady, by her charms, brings death to all that see or > > hear > > her. But that Death is unlike ordinary deaths in that it is the > > beginning of life, instead of marking its end. > > > > Edgar > > > > Am Samstag, 10. März 2012, 08:04:17 schrieb William Samson: > >> It's a great piece of music. Do you know the date of the > >> > >> earliest version? > >> > >> Does that translate as "The Beautiful Murder"? I wonder why? > >> > >> Bill > >> From: Arto Wikla <wi...@cs.helsinki.fi> > >> To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > >> Sent: Friday, 9 March 2012, 20:31 > >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] La belle homicide > >> Dear baroque lutenists, > >> "La belle homicide" is really very strange, very special and > >> > >> especially very great piece! The music and also the name! And > >> they > >> knew that - of course - already in the 17th century: There are at > >> least about 40 versions/copies of this piece in different > >> > >> manuscripts! I just made my first try using the ms. Barbe version: > >> [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX4riaTkTP4&feature=youtu.b > >> e > >> > >> Perhaps more versions to come? > >> And yes, I really do know that my playing is not perfect at > >> > >> all... But the piece is great! I love it! :) > >> > >> Best, > >> Arto > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > >> -- > >> > >> References > >> > >> 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX4riaTkTP4&feature=youtu.be > >> 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
