I have added a GitHub issue for the CHOP option: https://github.com/BaseXdb/basex/issues/913
I invite all of you to add comments, report on potential difficulties caused by the switch, etc. Christian On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Dirk Kirsten <d...@basex.org> wrote: > Hi Graydon, > > as already said, we are going to change the default and we are aware of > the problem. > > But I do think your statement that this is an error and we are > "preserving errors" does not hold. As Liam Quin pointed out at > https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/pipermail/basex-talk/2013-April/004983.html > it is in fact a quirky behavior of BaseX, but it does not contradict the > spec. > > Also, I'd like to remind everyone that it is fact quite easy to change > the CHOP value, so this should also be possible at a client side. > > We do understand the problems with the default value and take them > seriously. However, there are implications with changing the default > value and we have to consider them. A client would also certainly > complain if we change default values all the time... > > Cheers, > Dirk > > On 26/03/14 18:50, Graydon Saunders wrote: >> Hi Dirk -- >> >> I understand that you don't want to break backward compatibility, but >> a)it never gets easier, only harder, when you must do that, as more >> existing applications accumulate and b)the example given of the type >> of problem is seriously bad code. (I totally believe this kind of >> code exists in the wild; I can't muster much sympathy for an >> observation that "give me every text node in the document" is likely >> to go wrong, because my experience says it is _certain_ to go wrong, >> you never do that without qualifying which text nodes you mean.) >> >> And, really, yeah, a commitment to backward compatibility is good; a >> commitment to preserving error is not, and the CHOP default behaviour >> is an error. Abstractions like backward compatibility don't even get >> into the discussion when the initial client response is "you changed >> our data and broke it". The client having that reaction wasn't very >> nuanced about it (and didn't immediately understand they were looking >> at a copy) but they weren't wrong. This really is a serious bug for >> mixed content. >> >> So, please, could we get a release version commitment for when this >> bug will be fixed? >> >> Thanks! >> Graydon >> >> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Dirk Kirsten <d...@basex.org> wrote: >>> Hello Graydon, >>> >>> As Christian already pointed out, we had this discussion on the mailing >>> list quite frequently. See Christians answer from some time ago for some >>> insight: >>> https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/pipermail/basex-talk/2013-April/004984.html >>> >>> So although it is of course easily changed in our code, it does has some >>> serious implications in terms of backward compatibility. So you might be >>> able to convince your client by stating that we take backward >>> compatibility seriously and will take some time and thought to change >>> things that break applications :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dirk >>> >>> On 26/03/14 18:24, Graydon Saunders wrote: >>>> Could we get _which_ future version? I recall this being said before >>>> 7.8 was released, too, and was feeling hopeful. >>>> >>>> I understand that from a technical perspective this is a completely >>>> trivial thing -- set the flag! -- but from the perspective of having >>>> to argue for three months to be able to use BaseX at all at a client >>>> whose internal tester did a naive load of some narrative-style XML, >>>> observed the loss of white space around internal-to-the-mixed-content >>>> tags, and said "this application is banned", it's not trivial at all. >>>> Especially since it's not technically correct to the XML spec; one is >>>> forced to argue that something is a minor quirk of an otherwise >>>> excellent application *after* it's already given senior, stubborn, and >>>> non-technical content experts metaphorical heart attacks. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Christian Grün >>>> <christian.gr...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> True; this discussion is already going on for quite a while now. The >>>>> default >>>>> value of CHOP will be changed in a future version of BaseX. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Graydon Saunders <graydon...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Though I think "CHOP" defaulting to true is a bug compared to the >>>>>> expected behaviour of XML. >>>>>> >>>>>> And while it's very useful to have CHOP there for some kinds of data, >>>>>> for other kinds it's a severe hazard that it's the default. People >>>>>> have major freakouts when their documentation XML documents look like >>>>>> they've lost the white spaces around bold tags and will have nothing >>>>>> to do with BaseX thereafter. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Graydon >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Dirk Kirsten <d...@basex.org> wrote: >>>>>>> Sorry, mail was supposed to be send to the mailing list... Information >>>>>>> is the same as in Leos mail >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [basex-talk] whitespaces in import >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 17:59:12 +0100 >>>>>>> From: Dirk Kirsten <d...@basex.org> >>>>>>> To: Stefan Sechelmann <sec...@math.tu-berlin.de> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Stefan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26/03/14 17:51, Stefan Sechelmann wrote: >>>>>>> Is there some kind of whitespace normalization >>>>>>>> going on during import? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, it is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can I set options that influence this behavior or is this a bug? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, you can. Set the CHOP option to false (see >>>>>>> https://docs.basex.org/wiki/Options#CHOP for details) or start BaseX >>>>>>> with the -w flag (which sets CHOP to false). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope that helps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Dirk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dirk Kirsten, BaseX GmbH, http://basex.org >>>>>>> |-- Firmensitz: Blarerstrasse 56, 78462 Konstanz >>>>>>> |-- Registergericht Freiburg, HRB: 708285, Geschäftsführer: >>>>>>> | Dr. Christian Grün, Dr. Alexander Holupirek, Michael Seiferle >>>>>>> `-- Phone: 0049 7531 28 28 676, Fax: 0049 7531 20 05 22 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> BaseX-Talk mailing list >>>>>>> BaseX-Talk@mailman.uni-konstanz.de >>>>>>> https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/mailman/listinfo/basex-talk >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> BaseX-Talk mailing list >>>>>> BaseX-Talk@mailman.uni-konstanz.de >>>>>> https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/mailman/listinfo/basex-talk >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> BaseX-Talk mailing list >>>> BaseX-Talk@mailman.uni-konstanz.de >>>> https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/mailman/listinfo/basex-talk >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dirk Kirsten, BaseX GmbH, http://basex.org >>> |-- Firmensitz: Blarerstrasse 56, 78462 Konstanz >>> |-- Registergericht Freiburg, HRB: 708285, Geschäftsführer: >>> | Dr. Christian Grün, Dr. Alexander Holupirek, Michael Seiferle >>> `-- Phone: 0049 7531 28 28 676, Fax: 0049 7531 20 05 22 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> BaseX-Talk mailing list >>> BaseX-Talk@mailman.uni-konstanz.de >>> https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/mailman/listinfo/basex-talk > > -- > Dirk Kirsten, BaseX GmbH, http://basex.org > |-- Firmensitz: Blarerstrasse 56, 78462 Konstanz > |-- Registergericht Freiburg, HRB: 708285, Geschäftsführer: > | Dr. Christian Grün, Dr. Alexander Holupirek, Michael Seiferle > `-- Phone: 0049 7531 28 28 676, Fax: 0049 7531 20 05 22 > _______________________________________________ > BaseX-Talk mailing list > BaseX-Talk@mailman.uni-konstanz.de > https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/mailman/listinfo/basex-talk _______________________________________________ BaseX-Talk mailing list BaseX-Talk@mailman.uni-konstanz.de https://mailman.uni-konstanz.de/mailman/listinfo/basex-talk
