Manfred, What region are you in?
North Idaho--Sandpoint--the panhandle of Idaho. My reason for building the cistern was not drought, but the first winter, my waterlines to my well froze before Thanksgiving with no snowcover and below zero weather, so if every first of November, I'd fill the cistern up and have enough water to go through until spring and then refill as needed through the summer for garden watering and everything. My creek was only 50 yards away, but 110 ft down a bank. I used a Homelite Chainsaw fire pump that I rented. It would fill the cistern in about 6 hours at a rental and fuel cost of about $20 each time. Emulsified asphalt is used on U.N.-sponsored water systems around the world and is considered safe to 140°F. I'm still using it today in my present system and I'm not having problems with it. It's a water-based emulsin we're talking about, not a solvent based. MP: What were the interval distances between the spacers? 2 feet apart and they're pulled out as soon as you finish the top ring you're doing and reused the next day. MP: So, the plywood's 8' radius curvature is fastened (how?) on the horizontal plane? ...on one or both sides of the steel? On the outsides of the steel parts of the form with small steel anglebrackets from the hardware store. The handles of the form are two pieces of conduit for the handgrips with the ends flattened and drilled for 8" carriage bolts whose lower headends pick up the plywood templates. A small turnbuckle slides up and down on the bolts to allow fine adjustment of the form width, and when you pick up the turnbuckles to the handles, it releases the form from the wall, to be slid ahead and clamped for the next two or three feet. It goes fast and doesn't require any skill at all. MP: How was the union attached to the slipform?...via a pipe nipple through both sides of the 1/8 th steel?. and at what height of the 3' or 4' steel sides ? It's attached to the plywood template on the leading inside edge of the form by a 1/2" pipe flange, nipple, elbow, nipple and union, not tight so the form can pivot in the horizontal plane to stay in line with the wall. MP: I assume you mean this prior to the slipform wall. Did you also use the pivot to mark out the beam trench? Yes, I have a 10" wide one that I used for the grade beams and the hollow exterior basement walls--3" concrete, 4" wood shavings, 3" concrete. On a double wall, you leave the tie strips in place to connect the inside and outside walls. I can carry all the form work for the house one to each hand easily, and the templates can be changed for a straight or any other radius wall. It's a handy system. MP: If i understand correctly you only pack 4" increments at a time. So, why do you need 3-4' high forms? The form is only 4 inches high, not 4 feet. An 8' wall takes 24 days at 4" height. (From Merla: Sorry, it was my typo. It should have read "1/8 x 4" x 3'". I still have the forms stored outside for 25 years and they're in usable shape. The cement coating which stablized on the surface kept them from rusting. The original cistern was set 4 or 5 feet into the ground for 2/3rds of it's circumference. The remaining wall was open to the slab with a large wood stove backed up against the wall to warm the water up in the winter. It makes for a very even heat and humidity in the house and far fewer sinus infections. One final word to Robert Farr: Robert, just start! By the time you're done you'll be an "expert" too! I'm from your part of the country too--Fairfax and Greensprings. Many lovely hours on the upper Potomac! Manfred Palmer wrote: > Herb : This a very useful contribution for me . I had a few points needing > clarification which i inserted in your text. When/if you have time, would > you clarify? > For a long time, i've dreamed of using 4 stackable 10' -high silos on grade > as the base for a house, capped with a peakless pyramid roof cavity . A > round cistern in the centre (s) seems workable. I guess there may be more > friendly internal coatings available now? than bitumins. > What region are you in? > Thanks for your experience!.......manfred > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merla" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:49 PM > Subject: Drought/Cistern > > > > > Robert: > > > > Twenty odd years ago, I had occasion to build a 10,000 gallon cistern > > using slipform concrete construction with forms from a Ken Kern Owner > > Builder Book, I can't remember which one. The form was made with two > > 1/8" x 4' x 3' strips set up with conduit and bolt spacers for a 3" wall > > MP: What were the interval distances between the spacers? > > > thickness. It could be used either for straight walls or circular walls > > > > by changing 3/4" plywood templates tabbed to the outside of the steel > > strips. Mine was for an 8 ft radius. > > MP: So, the plywood's 8' radius curvature is fastened (how?) on the > horizontal plane? ...on one or both sides of the steel? > > > > On the cleared site, I dug a post hole in the middle filled with > > concrete and a pipe nipple to take a 10 ft high center pivot post 1 1/4 > > inches--anything like that, size not important. A pivot arm 8 ft long > > with a T is slipped over the center post and pivoted on it and a plywood > > > > washer and clamp to support the T, a union on the outer end that mated > > with a union on the leading edge of the slipform. > > MP: How was the union attached to the slipform?...via a pipe nipple through > both sides of the 1/8 th steel?. and at what height of the 3' or 4' steel > sides ? > > > > Drop a 1/4 mile coil of barbed wire down the center pivot post, resting > > on a plywood disc sitting on top of the T so the barbed wire could be > > dispensed simply by pulling on it. The center pivot post was guyed from > > > > its top to trees outside the building area. A trench was cut for a > > grade beam footing 10 inches wide, steel reinforced and 16" in diameter, > > MP: I assume you mean this prior to the slipform wall. Did you also use the > pivot to mark out the beam trench? > > > with J-bolts protruding from it. A mortar cart was used to mix a very > > stiff mortar (a motor-driven mixer will not work). You want a dry mix > > you can handpack into the slipform that will stand by itself with the > > slipform is moved ahead. > > MP: If i understand correctly you only pack 4" increments at a time. So, why > do you need 3-4' high forms? > > The barbed wire is fed in a single strand into > > > > the center of the slipform and buried in 4" of mortar. There is no > > vertical reinforcing in the wall. One 4" lift today is stacked on the > > previous day's ring. The form rests on galvanized mortar tabs that keep > > > > the form from slipping down the wall. > > > > When I got up 8 feet, I plastered a rich cement mix on the whole inside > > wall and then installed a drain outlet in the center leading to the pump > > > > from the bottom of a stainless steel salad bowl for a sediment trap with > > > > a foot valve screen for a filter in the line. Then a gravel pad was put > > > > down 3-4" thick, black plastic, then 6" wire mesh for slab reinforcement > > > > and a 4-6" concrete slab draining towards the collection bowl. > > > > The inside was finished off with multiple coats of emulsified asphalt > > foundation coating. Log joists in a timber deck finished the structure > > that became the center ring of a 40 ft diameter round house foundation. > > The 3" concrete wall supported about a third the weight of the whole > > house and never gave any trouble in the next twenty years. House air > > was drawn in over the cistern water and the humidity was very welcome in > > > > a wood-heated house. When Ken Kern was told about this, he was horified, > > > > but 24 years later it's still in good shape. The house structure came > > in at $6/sq ft built to code, including the cistern which had about $500 > > > > worth of materials in the cistern. 10,000 gallons of water in the > > basement is a great thermal flywheel when you leave a wood heated house > > for a couple of days in the wintertime. Even after a week of zero > > degree weather with no fire, there was no ice build-up on the cistern. > > > > Signed, Herb > > Merla's husband > >
