Dear Glen, Yes, I would be very happy with the Amish model you suggest where the new is introduced only after being carefully considered for how it will affect the community. Another useful and analogous parallel to this discussion we are having is taking place now between industrial organic and the buy local movement. In that divide too it is as much about changing consciousness as it is about improving agriculture. Good research and innovation are vital in any realm, but when it feeds the existing dysfunctional structure of corporate agri-business, depopulated rural communities and poorly paid farm workers it is in the end counterproductive. While I respect and admire your work tremendously I can't help but wonder if trading 'Amish ways' for the flim-flam, razzle-dazzle of multi-level marketing (MLM), to then spoon feed BD remedies to those who have little appreciation of its other dimensions, who are only looking for the latest magic bullet, will be very rewarding. All the best Ron
-----Original Message----- From: Garuda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, July 12, 2003 8:22 PM Subject: Re: Greg Willis - costs of preps >Ron >This is THE question of the time I see in front of me. >We have had a BDA fund, a full time consultant for 13 years 'selling' the >traditional form of BD, and it has made next to no impact on the commercial >effect of BD in the NZ economy, over the last 20 years. If anything it >damaged the image and appreciation of BD in our general landowners minds. >Do we sit by and wait for the world to collapse and then come in with our >'amish' ways or do we find a way that our benefits can be used now as part >of the prevailing paradigm to help them move to a less damaging method? >Already Integrated Pest management is heading growers towards us. Compost >teas etc have bought organics next to being our twin. SO things are moving >from all sides. Where can we move to meet them? >In my experience I see, only when the farmers can see feel and experience a >functioning alterative, backed by 3rd party research, will they move towards >it. >It has to be relevant, to their existing production system. >At present, based on the evidence in front of me it appears trad BD is >mostly relevant to third world, mortgage free and highly subsidies >economies. >There are many roads to the top of the hill and we all need to follow the >one that appears best to us. The more the merrier. >MAy all seekers for the development of BD have the dedication to their goals >I see here in the strength and diversity of views. >Do what youáll reckon is best for you, and marvel at your companions >achievements, or find fuel through jealousy, whatever, just do your bit as >you see fit. > >I know my developments work, I got official proof, so there is no going back >no matter what anyone says. The mould has been broken, like it or not. BD is >not what it was and it never will be again. Keep it were you want it for >yourself, but I for one am moving forward with the reality I see in front of >me and it does not look very Amish. >cheers >Glen > > > > >BdMax distributors of ThermoMax -THE proven frost protection >www.bdmax.co.nz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ron poitras" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 5:53 AM >Subject: Re: Greg Willis - costs of preps > > >> "Do any of you think, for even one second, that anyone, >> anywhere, other than the few adherents to biodynamics, >> is going to stir "horn manure" and "horn silica" for >> an hour and spray it on their lands around the world? >> Let's look at the evidence objectively. It hasn't >> happened and in the present "horse and buggy" form, it >> will never happen. People want convenience and price. >> They don't want "mumbo jumbo"." >> >> People wanting price and convenience is a significant part of the problem. >> The culmination of this kind of thinking is the global economy. Price and >> convenience achieved for the few at an astronomical cost to the rest. >> Steiner talked about the farm as an organism. One reason was to convey the >> wholeness of nature and another was to help in defining the proper scale >of >> an enterprise. Stirring horn manure and horn silica may be 'horse and >> buggy', but it accomplishes more than one thing. What one can stir and >> spray relates to the proper size. It also puts the farmers imprint and >> intention on what he's doing. Focusing on convenience means not having to >> think; focusing on price means a loss of context. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hamilton Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:43 PM >> Subject: Re: Greg Willis - costs of preps >> >> >> >Dear Tobias, Gil, Roger, Mark and Graeme, >> > >> >Good. I got you all thinking. Some of your >> >criticisms are absolutely justified and I will address >> >them now and later. Others are not. >> > >> >The calculations in my little email need to be refined >> >somewhat but in doing so, it will only go to prove my >> >point that homeopathically diluted and potentized >> >remedies are, no matter how you calculate it, less >> >expensive to make, less expensive to use, in my >> >experience, more effective to use and ultimately, the >> >best way to get the most out of Steiner's remedies. >> >I have to give credit to Glen Atkinson and Peter >> >Bacchus who taught me the techniques for this method. >> >Aside from the cost factors, you can get more than >> >100,000 units of homeopathic material out of one unit >> >of raw material and the shelf life is years longer. >> > >> >I hasten to point out that in my calculations, I >> >assumed, for the sake of that discussion, that it >> >would take the same amount of time to stir and spray >> >the raw preps as it would to pour and spray the >> >homeopathic dilutions. This is false reasoning as it >> >would take at least three times as long to do the raw >> >preps. >> > >> >Nevertheless, who else has done these calculations? >> >Who else has compared these costs? >> > >> >We need to drag biodynamics out of the horse and buggy >> >era and into the 21st Century and we are not going to >> >do it using the raw remedies and the "hippie" >> >language, amateur antics and philosophy that so often >> >invades biodynamics. This is very serious business >> >and it should be taken seriously. >> > >> >We're talking about saving the Earth and all of >> >humanity. >> > >> >Over the past three years, we have found multiple uses >> >for our homeopathic remedies outside of agriculture >> >and are exploiting that market aggressively right now. >> > The personal care uses for our remedies include skin, >> >hair, burn, cut, bruise and diabetes care. We think >> >that since our lab tests show that they may somehow >> >change the molecular structure of whatever they are >> >sprayed on, they may even have a future in metallurgy >> >and automotive care. >> > >> >We hope to begin conducting double blind medical >> >studies this fall. >> > >> >Steiner provided the world with certain remedies that >> >would fix agriculture if applied in the right way. >> >The missing link in making it work was horn clay and I >> >do not think it is in dispute that I was the one who >> >figured out how to make it and use it where others had >> >tried and failed. Then I gave it freely to the world >> >over 5 years ago. >> > >> >Since I figured out how to make and use horn clay, >> >that is why I call them "Steiner/Willis" remedies. If >> >that offends some of you, so be it. Sorry. I will >> >not apologize. >> > >> >It is my opinion, based on our tests and years of >> >experience, which I am confident will be born out by >> >independent research by any of you, that horn clay >> >makes horn humus and horn quartz work the way they are >> >supposed to work. Hugh Lovel wrote an entire series >> >on the genius of horn clay sometime in the past on >> >bdnow. I am sure any number of tests can be >> >constructed to prove that and I encourage all of you >> >to consider constructing and conducting such tests on >> >your own before you attack my work or me personally. >> > >> >As for the commercial or "advertising" side of my >> >business, what does Glen do? What does Hugh do? What >> >does Steve do? Doesn't Allan advertise his yearly >> >conference here? Before you point the finger at me, >> >consider the others who hype their products and >> >services freely on bdnow. If you criticize me for >> >this, if you want to be consistent, you have to attack >> >everybody who does it. >> > >> >While I appreciate that many in the "biodynamic >> >community" are idealistic and good hearted, idealism >> >and a good heart are great incentives but on their >> >own, don't do much to advance Steiner's ideas as a >> >science that (a) can be duplicated by any researcher >> >anywhere and (b) create products that are made for >> >farmers and gardeners in a convenient and affordable >> >package with proven science behind them. >> > >> >You see, we can all talk among ourselves, as one of >> >you pointed out, and what good does it do? Well, the >> >answer is, in my opinion, "a lot of good" or wouldn't >> >be wasting my time here. I'm not trying to convert >> >the choir. I'm trying to stimulate your thinking as >> >to the possibilities and potentials of Steiner's >> >ideas. My style is intentional. Some times you have >> >to shake people to the core before they'll wake up. >> > >> >I don't believe for a minute that the BDA, DAI and >> >JPI, or the anthros at Dornach, will wake up any time >> >in this century. In fact, I believe that they will >> >all fade away into the future, unable to adapt to the >> >new thinking that is coming into the world through >> >such vehicles as bdnow, the incredibly advanced souls >> >born in the past 15 years and others. >> > >> >As for the criticism that I should be focusing on >> >farmers outside of the bd community, what do you think >> >I am doing? For Heaven's Sake! I am sure Glen would >> >agree with this, we now have the remedies in a form >> >that ANYONE can use and we are aggressively moving >> >into that market as well. >> > >> >Glen's taking it in one direction, I in another. >> >We're doing a lot of good for the world! >> > >> >(Just to answer your question, I have two >> >undergraduate degrees with majors in business, >> >economics and biology and a minor in geography. I >> >have a master's degree in health care administration >> >and worked in the medical field for many years. I >> >have made it a point to continue my education >> >intensively after matriculating in other areas of >> >interest as well including metaphysics and I am a >> >Kriyaban of 25 years. I am schooled in and practice >> >the scientific method in my work and in the practice >> >of Yoga. I have 40 years experience working with >> >plants and in the past 10 years, focusing on diseases >> >in winegrape vines, have accomplished more in that >> >short period of time than anyone in the history of >> >viticulture. In 1986, I was awarded second place in >> >Organic Gardening Magazine's Gardener of the Year >> >contest. I have written several books and other >> >publications. What I am most proud of accomplishing I >> >was that I able to rescue my sons from a corrupt >> >family law court system.) >> > >> >Look, lets's go back to what Steiner and his farmers >> >wanted to accomplish. They wanted to save >> >agriculture, Steiner wanted to save the world. He >> >advised those farmers to take his ideas, work with >> >them, develop them and make them available to the >> >entire world so that the Earth could be saved from a >> >potential of total destruction of agriculture and >> >human and animal life brought on by the removal of >> >spiritual nutrition in the food we eat. He admonished >> >those who followed his ideas that they should take >> >this to every corner of the Earth. >> > >> >(The Koliskos tried in the 1930's only to be rebuffed >> >by the anthros and bdidiots of the time.) >> > >> >Has this goal been reached? No, it hasn't and we all >> >bear some measure of responsibility for this failure. >> >Okay. So, "fix it". >> > >> >Well, this can't be fixed if we don't have Steiner's >> >remedies in a form that is easy to use, not costly - >> >even considering the indirect costs and benefits - and >> >is backed by scientific research that the average >> >farmer and consumer can understand and appreciate. In >> >short, if we, who understand what Steiner said and >> >did, better than most, to one degree or another, don't >> >do it, nobody will. You are not going to get the >> >chemists at Monsanto and DuPont to fund this kind of >> >research or product development. There's no money in >> >it and it conflicts with their missions as chemical >> >companies. Nor are you going to get the governments >> >of the world to fund this kind of R & D. They have no >> >interest since they are so heavily influenced by >> >conventional chemical agriculture. >> > >> >So, as I said, who's going to do it? Well, I've spend >> >about $700,000 over the past 10 years, directly and >> >indirectly, developing Steiner's, Burbank's, Carver's >> >and my ideas to get them to the point where they are >> >now commercially viable products that can be verified >> >through scientific testing. >> > >> >Consider this. Every time someone sprays some of our >> >remedies on their faces, some drops to the ground. It >> >changes the ground. >> > >> >Here's a fact that will eventually be verified that >> >I'll bet most of you don't know. Whenever Steiner's >> >remedies, with horn clay, fall on the ground, the >> >Karma in the elements, minerals and plants goes away. >> >This means that whenever and wherever you spray the >> >preps, you are eliminating all the negative Karma from >> >minerals and plants. What does this do? It gives you >> >a clean slate to work on. It gives plants a chance to >> >develop into their archetypal forms without the >> >hindrances of negative Karma. >> > >> >How do I know this. Through insight and intuition >> >brought about by 25 years of meditating every day. >> >Meditation develops the intuition. >> > >> >Let's take this a step further. If it is possible to >> >eliminate the Karma in minerals and plants in an area, >> >what would this do to an area like, say, the Middle >> >East? How about burial grounds that have been >> >savaged? What about in Meso and South America where >> >the Spaniards and Portuguese tortured and murdered the >> >Incas, Mayans and other native people? What about the >> >"Killing Fields" in Cambodia? What about the death >> >camps in Germany, Russia and China? Think of the >> >possibilities! This could set the stage for bringing >> >peace to the world. >> > >> >Do any of you think, for even one second, that anyone, >> >anywhere, other than the few adherents to biodynamics, >> >is going to stir "horn manure" and "horn silica" for >> >an hour and spray it on their lands around the world? >> >Let's look at the evidence objectively. It hasn't >> >happened and in the present "horse and buggy" form, it >> >will never happen. People want convenience and price. >> > They don't want "mumbo jumbo". >> > >> >Glen and Peter pointed the way for me. They should >> >also point the way for you. I'm not going to reveal >> >the sequence I use nor the potency to which I take my >> >remedies to anyone. They are trade secrets. I paid >> >dearly for them. The fact that I gave to the world >> >instructions how to make horn clay is enough for now. >> >You can look up more data in the Kolisko's book on the >> >subject and maybe duplicate what I have done. >> > >> >In pure business terms, if you want to make these >> >remedies, you'll have to make the investment. Maybe >> >someone will surpass what I have done. Maybe not. >> >But the days of simply giving all this information >> >away willy-nilly are gone. It's time for each of you >> >to look within and develop Steiner's ideas in such a >> >way that humanity and the Earth can actually benefit >> >form them. Talk is cheap. >> > >> >This stance may offend some of you. Well, take heart >> >in the Buddhist saying that "If I hit you in the nose, >> >I don't make YOU mad." You make yourself mad. I >> >don't control your emotions or responses. YOU do. >> >Self -control is a hallmark of a truly developed >> >mature soul. >> > >> >I firmly believe that it is time for everyone who >> >believes in biodynamics to stop what they are doing >> >right now, consider why it has failed to reach its >> >potential, rip apart and reevaluate the basics, then >> >renew your struggle to bring this to the fulfillment >> >of Steiner's vision. That is the only way one can >> >live up to the importance of Steiner's gifts to the >> >world. >> > >> >Some of you say to yourselves, well "Greg is smart so >> >he can figure this out". Well, that's true. I am >> >smart and I am well educated. But aren't you smart >> >too? Steiner read from the "Cosmic Encyclopedia". >> >Neither Burbank nor Carver ever said they had all the >> >answers but that God gave them the answers. Both were >> >saints. So, be like a saint. Develop your intuition >> >through daily meditation. Act as if you are in the >> >service of God, doing His work. Where do you think >> >Steiner got his insights? God and God Alone. >> > >> >This is a truly spiritual world. Everything and >> >everyone in this world is an Individualized Expression >> >of Spirit. Each of us is a Reflection of God. We >> >have at our beck and call exactly the same knowledge >> >that God has. This is exactly the same knowledge and >> >wisdom that Steiner sought. Just ask God. The answer >> >will come to you. You don't need to spend $700,000 on >> >research like I did. >> > >> >Don't think for a minute that I take credit for all my >> >discoveries and insights. It comes from the same >> >Source. How do I know it's right? Because when I try >> >it, it works. >> > >> >The email I wrote to which all you responded, was only >> >the beginning of my comments on biodynamics and I will >> >continue to provide you with other "thought provoking" >> >ideas and comments. I haven't even scratched the >> >surface. Some of you may like my content and form, >> >others may not. They are all always made to make you >> >think - and respond with reason and feeling. >> > >> >What you think of me means nothing to me. Praise or >> >criticism are all the same. As the great Japanese >> >Samurai/Educator/Statesman Yakichi Fukazawa once said, >> >"Take all things in moderation." I appreciate the >> >approbations the same as the compliments. If a >> >criticism is true, I will adjust. If not, I will >> >forget it. >> > >> >My primary interest is in saving the world of >> >agriculture using Steiner's ideas in concert with >> >those of Burbank and Carver. If this brings me fame >> >and fortune, that's fine. If it doesn't, that's fine >> >too. I don't want to die after having been given all >> >this fantastic knowledge and face my Maker and say, >> >well, I squandered what You gave me. That's what too >> >many have done. >> > >> >This is a good start. >> > >> >Greg Willis >> >Agri-Synthesis® >> >Napa, CA >> >Why is this so? Here's the list of the problems, >> >deficiencies and limitations with BD Preps: >> > >> >1) To work best, BD Preps should be stirred by hand >> >for one hour which takes time and money. >> >2) If stirred by machine or flow forms, they can lose >> >up to 90% of their effectiveness. >> >3) Stirring machines or flow forms can cost up to >> >$3,000. >> >4) After stirring, BD Preps must be applied within 3 >> >hours for horn manure, 6 hours for horn silica. >> >5) After stirring, BD Preps must be filtered before >> >they can go through the sprayer tips, a time consuming >> >process. >> >6) Only enough of either prep that can be sprayed in 3 >> >or 6 hours can be stirred at any one time limiting the >> >amount of acreage that can be sprayed on any given >> >day. >> >7) Traditional application of BD Preps requires two >> >trips on two different days. Horn manure is sprayed >> >in the afternoon on the first day, horn silica is >> >sprayed on the morning of the second day. >> >8) Horn manure and horn silica have very specific >> >storage requirements. >> >9) The shelf life of horn manure and horn silica are 1 >> >to 5 years, if stored properly, which is difficult. >> >10) When applied to a field, horn manure and horn >> >silica can radiate their effects up to 1/4 of a mile >> >from the application site rendering side by side field >> >trials impossible. >> >11) The BD Prep "kit" does not include Horn Clay which >> >makes horn manure and horn silica work as they should >> >and can. >> >12) There is no scientific evidence or record of field >> >trials that prove that the application of BD Preps >> >actually do ANYTHING. >> > >> > >> >__________________________________ >> >Do you Yahoo!? >> >SBC Yahoo! 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