Sorry Michael. I was not clear there. I was not saying that *you* flamed *me*. That did not happen. I was speaking in a general sense to the flamers on this board. Please accept my apology for creating this misconception.
As for Unix file permissions, have a look at the cover of "Learning Perl". At the top of mine it says "UNIX Programming". I do agree that the mysteries of the *NIX OS should not be covered in a list like this, but some issues (like having to set the proper permissions to enable a script to run and security concerns as regards .htaccess/.htpasswd files and proper directory formation) do need to be discussed with on a beginner's list. If nothing else, to provide that beginner with a springboard to find the more in depth documentation he/she will need to be an effective programmer. However, the point of this response is, again, to apologize to you, Michael, for inadvertently implying that you had flamed me and I had words for you. This was not the case at all. Peace In Christ - Ron Goral [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Lamertz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:52 AM > To: Ron Goral > Cc: Michael Lamertz > Subject: Re: Improving the Quality of Our Beginners was Re: Write > permissions and other rights > > > Aye, > > Sorry, I'll reverse your quotes, because the following sentence struck > me: > > > If my questions are too remedial, then ignore > > them. But don't open fire on me simply because I've asked a question. > > Where have I flamed you? My response was completely *pro* your > request. %-) > > Let me quote the two last paragraphs of my own mail to you: > > ---------- snip ---------- > However, an appropriate answer on *this* *list* should have been a > pointer to at least one or two introductory Unix books and > perhaps some > webpages (and although I dare to post this long rand I'm actually not > able to provide you with any one, since I never read one %-) > > It's always hard to bootstrap oneself on a new platform, to get a grip > on the system and a feeling for where to look for more information... > Keep going, and keep on posting stuff here, you'll see, it'll get > better, and you most probably wont get flamed by a kid with too much > thestosterone everyday... > ---------- snip ---------- > > The only thing I didn't agree with was that topics like Unix file > permissions should be covered in the perl documentation. I explained my > reasons for that at length, and I think they stand. > > But then again I agreed with you that the request *IS* valid for the > beginners list, and that somebody who had good information on the topic > should have replied to it instead of some zealot flaming around. > > We're completely in line I think. > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2002 at 08:28:08PM -0500, Ron Goral wrote: > > Well, I didn't get flamed, another "potential coder" did. For > the sake of > > brevity, the point of my message was simply this: A beginner's > list is for > > beginners. Not folks with an intermediate knowledge of the > subject. It is > > for those of us who do not know what we are doing. This is the place we > > should be able to go and ask the "stupid" questions and hope > for an answer. > > Yepp, I completely agree, although I'm not for cutting out the > intermediate level questions to another list. Where will you draw the > line between a beginner and an intermediate? > > If you fragment the lists you also fragment the community and eventually > the more advanced users will stay away from the absolute-beginners list > since they don't find it interesting or challenging enough. > > > It is an incredible bonus that more knowledgeable coders > actually take the > > time to patiently answer our questions. > > But don't you underestimate the value that these questions have for us > who answer. This is both give and take! I'm programming perl since > about 1994 or 1995, but *explaining* stuff to other folks makes me think > not twice but trice about topics that I thought I had fully grasped > years ago, and quite often I get a new insight by that process. > > I like that, and that's why I lurk on the list! > > > But when the knowledgeable can no > > longer be patient, then they need to move on to a place where they are > > behind the curve and leave us alone. > > Agreed, and in that next sentence... > > > I'm not on this list so that some kid > > can look down his nose at me. > > ...You describe exactly what kind of person we're talking about here. > Don't take these kids serious, although they can be annoying some times, > they tend to get bored and go away, but there will always be others who > answer appropriately. > > > Well, I'm getting long winded again and ya'll have better > things to do than > > listen to me rant...again. > > Actually, yes and no. I may be busy, but this topic is interesting and > important, so keep on talking ... > > -- > If we fail, we will lose the war. > > Michael Lamertz | +49 221 445420 / > +49 171 6900 310 > Nordstr. 49 | > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 50733 Cologne | > http://www.lamertz.net > Germany | > http://www.perl-ronin.de > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
