Ketan,
I will add the informative reference to the PCEP draft and initiate manual
submission after proofreading.

Thanks,
Rishabh

On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 12:00 AM Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi Rishabh,
>
> Thanks for sharing this update. I am yet to go over it in detail, but from
> a quick look it does address a whole bunch of my DISCUSS points and
> comments.
>
> A few quick observations/comments:
> - I find the informative reference to draft-ietf-pce-sr-p2mp-policy that
> we discussed to be missing in Section 2. There is reference to PCEP, BGP,
> and Netconf. The document would benefit if the PCEP spec was used as an
> example by reference in this section. While my DISCUSS brought up this
> being normative reference, the updated text can make things work with an
> informative reference.
> - Please check for grammar and spelling errors before submission.
>
> If you could do a manual posting of this version (given the submission
> window being closed), it would help us make progress and I will update my
> ballot. It would also help address other IESG reviews.
>
> Thanks,
> Ketan
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2025 at 10:30 PM Rishabh Parekh <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Ketan,
>> I am attaching rev 16 along with the diff.I am fine to meet this week if
>> we need to discuss further.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rishabh
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 11:19 PM Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rishabh,
>>>
>>> I am happy to work this out over emails (or other means) with the
>>> updated draft and diffs as attachments. Please let me know if the authors
>>> would like to meet this week for further discussions. Next week will be
>>> difficult with the IETF.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ketan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 8:50 PM Rishabh Parekh <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gunter,
>>>> The draft submission cutoff for IETF 124 is in effect now. I will not
>>>> be able to publish it till the IETF starts.
>>>>
>>>> Rishabh.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 22, 2025 at 10:52 PM Gunter van de Velde (Nokia) <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Rishabh,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe Ketan is out this week. Maybe best to publish to expedite
>>>>> processing feedbacks and resolve remaining open items.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> G/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Rishabh Parekh <[email protected]>
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 23, 2025 12:58 AM
>>>>> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar <[email protected]>
>>>>> *Cc:* The IESG <[email protected]>;
>>>>> [email protected]; [email protected];
>>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [bess] Ketan Talaulikar's Discuss on
>>>>> draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-15: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *CAUTION:* This is an external email. Please be very careful when
>>>>> clicking links or opening attachments. See the URL nok.it/ext for
>>>>> additional information.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ketan,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the next revision of the restructured document ready which
>>>>> addresses most of discuss/comments from you and other reviewers. Do you
>>>>> want me to share the updated document on this thread, or do you want me to
>>>>> publish it so it can be reviewed by others too?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rishabh.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 3:19 AM Ketan Talaulikar <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Rishabh,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your responses and your patience as we discuss these
>>>>> points. I understand that the changes are not trivial and I would wait for
>>>>> them to be posted or shared before we continue forward.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the normative reference to at least one signaling solution
>>>>> (PCEP?), let me see how the updates are coming out with an informative
>>>>> reference and more details on the interaction/signaling and then we can
>>>>> progress further.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ketan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 17, 2025 at 9:54 AM Rishabh Parekh <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ketan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Responses inline @ [RP2].
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Give us some time to reorganize the document to address some of your
>>>>> discuss/comments
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Rishabh.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2025 at 8:28 AM Ketan Talaulikar <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Rishabh,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your quick response. Please check inline below with KT for
>>>>> follow-up and clarifications. I am skipping responding to ones where we
>>>>> have reached an agreement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 5:30 AM Rishabh Parekh <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ketan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for a thorough review. Responses inline @ [RP]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2025 at 7:50 AM Ketan Talaulikar via Datatracker <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> DISCUSS:
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to the authors and the WG for this work.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found the document hard to read and follow perhaps due to its
>>>>> organization. I
>>>>> don't see any major technical issues, but I am concerned that there
>>>>> are some
>>>>> aspects that may have been left out. Please find below some points for
>>>>> discussions. This is my attempt to get a better understanding of the
>>>>> proposals
>>>>> while offering some suggestions that hopefully improve the document.
>>>>>
>>>>> discuss#1: MVPN vs EVPN - clarity of procedures
>>>>> I get the impression that sections 2, 3, 9, and 10 are common.
>>>>> Sections 4,5,
>>>>> and 6 are MVPN specific. Section 7 is EVPN specific. However, section
>>>>> 3 seems
>>>>> not to touch upon EVPN but only MVPN. As a result of this, someone
>>>>> that is
>>>>> interested in implementing only one of two needs to struggle to
>>>>> understand the
>>>>> "bread crumbs" all over the document. This seems especially
>>>>> challenging for
>>>>> EVPN where things are sparse. Notably there is no reference to RFC9252
>>>>> for EVPN
>>>>> multicast and the level of details are not the same as for MVPN. The
>>>>> comments
>>>>> sections has more details.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Section 3 is meant to specify construction of RFC 6514 BGP PMSI
>>>>> Tunnel Attribute (PTA) for SR P2MP trees for both SR-MPLS and SRv6. This
>>>>> attribute was initially specified for BGP MVPN RFC 6514 and then used for
>>>>> EVPN Inclusive Multicast Ethernet Tag route in RFC 7432 and other EVPN
>>>>> routes defined in RFC 9572. This section is not meant to be specific for
>>>>> MVPN or EVPN.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> If section 3 (and in general) is supposed to cover both MVPN and
>>>>> EVPN then please follow the same consistent approach for both - for more
>>>>> detailed suggestions please see responses on this further in the comments
>>>>> part below. An example of something that is not clear is if the new
>>>>> behaviors End.DTMC4/6/46 apply to EVPN (as in say RFC9625) ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We can add a reference to RFC 9252 in Section 3.1.2, but I am not sure
>>>>> I understand your comment about "RFC 9252 for EVPN multicast". Section 6.3
>>>>> of RFC 9252 specifies how PTA is constructed for the Inclusive Multicast
>>>>> Ethernet Tag route over SRv6 core and Section 6.6 briefly mentions how
>>>>> other EVPN routes used for multicast do not have any SRv6 considerations.
>>>>> Besides that, I don't see anything related to EVPN multicast in that RFC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Can SR P2MP Tree be used for EVPN IMET Routes? I believe the
>>>>> answer is yes. However, this document goes into much more detail by not
>>>>> just covering ingress replication (which is what is covered by RFC 9252?)
>>>>> but also SR P2MP Tree usage. Should this document then update RFC 9252 and
>>>>> clarify multicast usage for EVPN?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] I think so, especially for upstream assigned ESI context
>>>>> (similar to upstream assigned ESI label mentioned in Section 8,3.1.2 of 
>>>>> RFC
>>>>> 7432 for P2MP MPLS LSPs used for BUM) and how it is encoded in the SRH of
>>>>> SRv6 P2MP tree. Let me see how I can reword Section 3 or split it into two
>>>>> for MVPN and EVPN and also add more details to the EVPN section.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> discuss#2: The Color EC is specified in RFC9012. What RFC9830 did was
>>>>> to
>>>>> introduce the CO bits for color-only steering. I believe the reference
>>>>> here is
>>>>> not to those CO bits but just the base color EC? If so, then RFC9012
>>>>> is the
>>>>> right reference and should be a normative one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] I can add a reference to RFC 9012 or replace RFC 9830 reference,
>>>>> though the color-only steering applies here too. Do you want me to make
>>>>> these references normative?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Please check
>>>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9256.html#section-8.8.1 and if the
>>>>> types other than Type 0 can be applied for MVPN/EVPN to determine if
>>>>> Color-only steering of RFC9830 applies. This is about null endpoints and
>>>>> any endpoint while VPNs will have a specific context on the PEs. Yes, the
>>>>> reference would need to be normative and RFC9012 is needed for sure; you
>>>>> can determine if RFC9830 also applies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Yes, both types 1 and 2 apply in this case too since an egress
>>>>> PE can individually set the color types in the Ext Color community I will
>>>>> make both RFC 9012 and 9830 references normative and also add text about
>>>>> applicability of Color Ext Community to MVPN SAFI.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> discuss#3: The MVPN and EVPN discovery procedures help the ingress PE
>>>>> (root)
>>>>> discover the egress PEs (leaves). From thereon, there is need for a
>>>>> protocol
>>>>> like PCEP to perform signaling from the ingress PE router to the
>>>>> controller so
>>>>> that the controller can compute and instantiate a P2MP tree in the
>>>>> network.
>>>>> This makes the PCEP spec (draft-ietf-pce-sr-p2mp-policy) a normative
>>>>> reference
>>>>> and required feature for the realization of this solution. At least one
>>>>> signaling protocol spec (I would guess PCEP is the one that is
>>>>> implemented) is
>>>>> required. This is explained in section 2 but is not clear enough on the
>>>>> workflow. Also, "controller" and signaling between routers and
>>>>> controllers is
>>>>> brought up in several other sections without sufficient clarity. Please
>>>>> consider explaining in detail in section 2 and then it can be skipped
>>>>> in the
>>>>> further sections.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] This document focuses on MVPN and EVPN Auto-Discovery procedures.
>>>>> The interaction between ingress PE and controller is specified in
>>>>> draft-ietf-pim-sr-p2mp-policy and it is the normative reference in this
>>>>> document. The signaling protocol between PE and controller can be PCEP,
>>>>> BGP, Netconf/YANG or even proprietary protocol. In fact, an ingress PE can
>>>>> itself serve as the controller to compute the P2MP trees (and program 
>>>>> these
>>>>> in the network) and this would not require any signalling for Leaf
>>>>> auto-discovery. Therefore, I don't think any one signaling protocol spec
>>>>> needs to be a normative reference in this document.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> I agree that there may be multiple options for communication
>>>>> between ingress PE and controllers. However this solution, to be
>>>>> implemented and interoperable, requires at least one of them that is
>>>>> standardized in the IETF. And, my understanding is that this has been done
>>>>> by implementations referenced using the PCEP extensions that I was
>>>>> referring to. It does not imply that others are precluded. But IMHO at
>>>>> least one standardized mechanism is a requirement for the solution in this
>>>>> document. Therefore, a normative reference.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] I still think making the PCEP document a normative reference is
>>>>> not required. It may be required for a complete solution, but certainly 
>>>>> not
>>>>> a requirement for interoperability. IMO, it might create an impression 
>>>>> that
>>>>> PCEP is the preferred protocol. I can add an informative reference if that
>>>>> will help to point to one possible protocol that can be used.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you please elaborate what is not clear about interaction between
>>>>> ingress PE and controller in Section 2 and other sections? We can try to
>>>>> improve the text to address your concerns. Also, what is repeated from
>>>>> Section 2 in other sections?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> First, there is no specific text in Section 2 that says that it is
>>>>> only the ingress PE that needs to talk to the controller. There is no text
>>>>> saying that the discovery procedures provide the SR P2MP Policy
>>>>> instantiated on the Ingress PE with the knowledge of the leaves which is
>>>>> then signaled to the controller as indicated in the SR P2MP Policy spec.
>>>>> How is the candidate path instantiated? Basically, I was looking for more
>>>>> detailed and generalized text in this section 2 that references and
>>>>> leverages the SR P2MP Policy spec and explains in more detail the
>>>>> connective tissue between that document and the discovery procedures. I
>>>>> believe it should be possible to generalize them in a way that applies to
>>>>> both MVPN and EVPN in this section. Then the further sections can just
>>>>> touch upon the MVPN/EVPN specifics and refer to this section?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] I will try to add some text in Section 2 providing an overview
>>>>> of interactions with SR P2MP policy covering the points you mentioned
>>>>> above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> discuss#4: Some informative references should be normative - please
>>>>> refer to
>>>>> the comments section for details.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Ok, I will respond to the comment.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> COMMENT:
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Please find below some comments on this document provided in the
>>>>> idnits output
>>>>> of v15 of the document. Please look for <EoRv15> at the end of this
>>>>> email and
>>>>> if not found, refer to the mailing list for the full review.
>>>>>
>>>>> < general editorial > The document makes the reader jump back and
>>>>> forth and
>>>>> across the text several times which affects the readability and flow.
>>>>> Please
>>>>> consider if you would like to do some reorganization to improve
>>>>> readability by
>>>>> introducing specific common constructs/topics upfront before they are
>>>>> referenced. Some repetition could be avoided. Clearing covering both
>>>>> MVPN and
>>>>> EVPN seperately (in independent sections) and with similar details
>>>>> would also
>>>>> help.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Can you suggest reorganization of the structure to improve the
>>>>> readability and flow? Section 2 and 3 were meant to be the common sections
>>>>> for MVPN and EVPN. Section 7 is an independent section for EVPN. If you
>>>>> want to have two independent sections for MVPN and EVPN, we can move
>>>>> Sections 5 & 6 as sub-sections under Section 4, but MVPN with IR is
>>>>> distinct from MVPN with SR P2MP trees and Section 6 about dampening 
>>>>> applies
>>>>> to both.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> There are different ways to reorganize and ultimately I will leave
>>>>> it to the authors. If there are common sections, please treat both MVPN 
>>>>> and
>>>>> EVPN the same - either explain both inline or provide references for both
>>>>> to their respective sections. Then for both MVPN and EVPN, there is 
>>>>> ingress
>>>>> replication and P2MP Trees - please cover both flavors
>>>>> (reference/leverage/update what is covered in RFC9252 for EVPN as
>>>>> appropriate). Ideal would be to have more common parts - but this may not
>>>>> be right if there are subtle differences - here I am referring to the SRv6
>>>>> encoding parts and the transposition specifically. For the MVPN and EVPN,
>>>>> you could have one section for each and then explain the aspects as
>>>>> sub-sections - or keep how it is today as long as there is clarity (which
>>>>> is MVPN and which is EVPN) and coverage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] We will try to reorganize to keep as many common parts together
>>>>> as we can, and then deal with MVPN and EVPN separately.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 169        PE routers use the MVPN or EVPN auto-discovery procedures
>>>>> in this
>>>>> 170        document to create, update and delete SR P2MP Policies on
>>>>> the
>>>>> 171        controllers using various methods such BGP, PCEP, NetConf
>>>>> etc., which
>>>>> 172        are outside the scope of this document.
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> Said in a different way, isn't this about discovering the root
>>>>> and
>>>>> leaves for the multicast service and feeding this information into say
>>>>> PCEP
>>>>> for building the P2MP trees using the SR P2MP Policy construct using a
>>>>> controller? Please consider if something like that could be explained
>>>>> more
>>>>> directly and help the reader understand what is happening here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] I think this is related to Discuss #3 above. I will wait for your
>>>>> response to my questions on that discuss before changing the text in
>>>>> Section 2.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> I hope the clarifications help.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Yes, it does.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 225        specific MVPN.  For EVPN considerations, see Section 7
>>>>> section.
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> This is hard to follow when there is a pointer to section 7
>>>>> for EVPN
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] What is hard to follow?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Let me explain. This section has the following text but section 7
>>>>> says nothing about the MPLS Label field and encoding for EVPN.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This section specifies how the "MPLS Label" field of PTA is filled to
>>>>> provide a context bound to a specific MVPN. For EVPN considerations, see 
>>>>> Section
>>>>> 7
>>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-evpn-sr-p2mp-15.html#EVPN>
>>>>>  section.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] I hope the re-organization of the document helps with this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 319        When a PE originates an Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D route with a
>>>>> PTA having
>>>>> 320        SR P2MP P-Tunnel Type, it MUST create a Candidate Path of
>>>>> SR P2MP
>>>>> 321        policy on the controller.  The Leaf nodes of P2MP tree are
>>>>> discovered
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> The SR P2MP Policy document says that the SR P2MP Policy and
>>>>> its CPs
>>>>> are instantiated on the root node. In this case, I assume that would
>>>>> be the
>>>>> case (instantiation via BGP based discovery and PCC-init) as opposed
>>>>> to a
>>>>> controller provisioned SR P2MP Policy? It would be better to leave the
>>>>> controller and the controller to router signaling (say via PCEP) in
>>>>> section 2?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] You are correct about the details of the procedure, but this text
>>>>> is meant to specify *when* to initiate the constructs necessary for SR 
>>>>> P2MP
>>>>> policy so that a controller can compute the tree for the SR P2MP P-Tunnel.
>>>>> Conceptually, the MVPN module interacts with the SR P2MP Policy module on
>>>>> the ingress PE to create a new SR Policy <Ingress PE, Tree-ID> with a CP
>>>>> (with optional constraints and optimization objective). The SR  P2MP 
>>>>> Policy
>>>>> then uses a signaling protocol to convey these to the controller.
>>>>> Similarly, other sections describe when to modify the Leaf set of the SR
>>>>> P2MP policy and when to delete the CP.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you suggesting that we put this high level overview in Section 2,
>>>>> and then omit the details in Section 4?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Yes, precisely something on those lines is what I am referring to
>>>>> above in discuss#3.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Response to discuss#3 above should address this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But, I think it is still important to specify when MVPN module
>>>>> interacts with SR P2MP Policy module (and with what operation)
>>>>> when originating or processing MVPN/EVPN Auto-Discovery routes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> I agree. However, it should be already clear in existing specs
>>>>> which routes signal the addition/removal of leaves. If those procedures 
>>>>> are
>>>>> well-known and covered, then perhaps the explanation can be trimmed. This
>>>>> is entirely up to the authors, more does not hurt - but consider if
>>>>> something else gets added and it is not covered for MVPN/EVPN and it is 
>>>>> not
>>>>> covered in this spec.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 473        field [RFC6514] of the Leaf A-D route.  When the PE
>>>>> receives the
>>>>> 474        first Leaf A-D route from a Leaf PE, identified by the
>>>>> Originating
>>>>> 475        Router's IP address field, it MUST add that PE as Leaf of
>>>>> the SR P2MP
>>>>> 476        Policy on the controller.
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> How is "add that PE as Leaf of the SR P2MP Policy on the
>>>>> controller"
>>>>> done? Suggest to explain all these workflows up front in section 2 as
>>>>> they are
>>>>> common/similar for both MVPN and EVPN discovery?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Again related to discuss #3 and some comments above. I will make
>>>>> the change once we have an agreement on what to do.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> I hope this is clarified.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 501        egress PEs using best-effort unicast connectivity.  For
>>>>> MVPN service
>>>>> 502        with a SLA from ingress PE to an egress PE, the egress PE
>>>>> colors the
>>>>> 503        Leaf Auto-Discovery route with a Color Extended Community as
>>>>> 504        specified in [I-D.ietf-idr-sr-policy-safi].  The ingress PE
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> This is related to discuss#2. The Color EC is specified in
>>>>> RFC9012.
>>>>> Is this specific to ingress replication? Can it not be used with SR
>>>>> P2MP Tree?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] No, this procedure is specific to MVPN IR (over SR) only because
>>>>> each egress PE can independently signal the color and therefore the
>>>>> Point-to-Point SR Policy used to send traffic from the ingress PE to that
>>>>> specific egress PE. It is possible that the SR Policies towards different
>>>>> egress PEs may have differing constraints/objectives and thereby each
>>>>> ingress replicated packet can have its own traffic engineered path to the
>>>>> respective egress PEs..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Please see my response to discuss#2 to clarify the difference
>>>>> between color-only steering and color-based steering. Btw, would this not
>>>>> apply to EVPN IR ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Both apply. Of course with color based steering, each egress PE
>>>>> may have different traffic engineering criteria, whereas color-only
>>>>> steering (either with null or any endpoint matching policies) will have
>>>>> uniform traffic engineering to all egress PEs. Yes, this applies to EVPN 
>>>>> IR
>>>>> too, but we have not addressed it in this document; though it will be
>>>>> similar to MVPN IR but just for different EVPN routes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For P2MP trees, the ingress PE dictates the traffic engineering
>>>>> treatment (possibly by provisioning of constraints/optimizations on the
>>>>> ingress PE for MVPN) for each SR P2MP tree used for MVPN/EVPN service. 
>>>>> This
>>>>> is necessary because packets are efficiently replicated in the SR P2MP 
>>>>> tree
>>>>> and therefore it is not feasible to have different traffic engineering
>>>>> treatment towards different egress PEs (leaf nodes) of SR P2MP trees.
>>>>> Therefore, the Color EC is not used with MVPN/EVPN over SR P2MP trees. 
>>>>> This
>>>>> also ties in with the identifier of SR P2MP Policy being (Root, Tree-ID) 
>>>>> in
>>>>> draft-ietf-pim-sr-p2mp-policy and omitting color from the identifier.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> This is a very important aspect and it is not reflected in the
>>>>> document. Please capture this in the text - I guess in the common part.
>>>>> That said, the Color from the BGP routes (MVPN/EVPN) can be conveyed by 
>>>>> the
>>>>> MVPN/EVPN module to the SR P2MP module which can then convey it via PCEP 
>>>>> as
>>>>> additional constraints for the CP. I have not yet reviewed the PCEP
>>>>> document. Perhaps you can say this is outside the scope of this document
>>>>> and leave it for the PCEP document? I hope you are able to see how details
>>>>> that are important for interoperability come out once we get into the
>>>>> connective tissue between these specifications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] I can try to capture this in the common part, or at least make
>>>>> the distinction clear in the MVPN IR section.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As I explained earlier, the ingress PE dictates the traffic
>>>>> engineering criteria for MVPN with SR P2MP trees. Color can be used as an
>>>>> abbreviation for TE constraints and optimization objective for 
>>>>> provisioning
>>>>> on ingress PE and even for signalling these as SR P2MP policy CP 
>>>>> attributes
>>>>> to the controller. I believe there is a PCEP draft to signal color from 
>>>>> PCC
>>>>> to PCE (with consistent definition on PCC and PCE) instead of the
>>>>> traditional constraints PCEP object. However, the Color Extended
>>>>> Community is not required in signalling of MVPN/EVPN A-D routes between 
>>>>> the
>>>>> PEs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 570        The SRv6 Multicast Service SID MUST be routable within the
>>>>> AS of the
>>>>> 571        egress PE.  As per RFC 7988, the Ingress PE uses the Tunnel
>>>>> 572        Identifier of PTA to determine the unicast tunnel to use in
>>>>> order to
>>>>> 573        send data to the egress PE.  For SRv6 IR, the ingress PE
>>>>> MUST use the
>>>>> 574        SRv6 Multicast Service SID to determine the unicast tunnel
>>>>> to be
>>>>> 575        used.  For both best-effort MVPN service and SLA-based MVPN
>>>>> service
>>>>> 576        using IGP Flexible Algorithm, the ingress PE MUST
>>>>> encapsulate the
>>>>> 577        payload in an outer IPv6 header, with the SRv6 Multicast
>>>>> Service SID
>>>>> 578        provided by the egress PE used as the destination address.
>>>>> If
>>>>> 579        Transposition Scheme is used, ingress PE MUST merge
>>>>> Function in MPLS
>>>>> 580        Label field of PTA with SRv6 SID in SID Information TLV
>>>>> using the
>>>>> 581        Transposition Offset and Length fields from SID structure
>>>>> sub-sub TLV
>>>>> 582        to create SRv6 Multicast Service SID.
>>>>>
>>>>> <minor> Except for the tunnel type, there is major duplication of the
>>>>> text in
>>>>> this section 5.2  and section 3.1.2 - it would help to perhaps
>>>>> consolidate in a
>>>>> single section and explain just the differences between ingress
>>>>> replication
>>>>> and use of P2MP Tree usage?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Even though there is some duplication, there are also subtle
>>>>> differences between the two besides the tunnel type. For SRv6 MVPN IR, the
>>>>> SRv6 Multicast Service SID must be routable because it carries the packet
>>>>> from ingress PE, or some intermediate P router, to the egress PE. But for
>>>>> MVPN over SRv6 P2MP trees, the  SRv6 Multicast Service SID in SRH of 
>>>>> packet
>>>>> is only used to derive MVPN context when one SRv6 P2MP P-Tunnel (i.e. SRv6
>>>>> P2MP tree) is shared across two or more MVPN contexts. In that case, the
>>>>> SRv6 Multicast Service SID may not be routable. In fact, it ideally should
>>>>> not be routable because it should not be mistakenly used to incorrectly
>>>>> forward a packet from an egress PE to the ingress PE or some other SRv6
>>>>> device.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it will be difficult to consolidate the text in once section.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Sure, as indicated in a previous comment, I thought as much. It is
>>>>> ok to duplicate the text in such cases with clear document organization 
>>>>> and
>>>>> text that conveys the applicability.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 595     5.2.1.  SRv6 Multicast Endpoint Behaviors
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> These behaviors are applicable for both ingress replication
>>>>> and P2MP
>>>>> tree mechanisms but the section has been placed under ingress
>>>>> replication.
>>>>> This is confusing. Also, there are references to these behaviors in
>>>>> the text
>>>>> before they are specified. Please consider moving this section at the
>>>>> top-level and towards the beginning of the draft (say after section
>>>>> 2?).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] These behaviors are used for the same purpose both in IR and P2MP
>>>>> tree to derive the MVPN context on egress PE. However, these are only
>>>>> required for P2MP trees when trees are shared across MVPN contexts
>>>>> (optional behavior). If there is one-to-one association between SR P2MP
>>>>> tree and an MVPN instance, the Tree-SID is sufficient to determine the
>>>>> context. I can add a forward reference to Section 5.2.1 in Section 3.1.2.
>>>>> Will that be sufficient?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> What about EVPN? Are they applicable to EVPN? I would still think
>>>>> it is best to put these upfront in their own section so that the reader is
>>>>> aware of them and then they can be used/referenced directly in the texts
>>>>> further down. Right now, it is buried deep in a section and there is no
>>>>> reference to these new behaviors in either the abstract or the
>>>>> introduction. Quite likely they get missed by reviewers in other WGs -
>>>>> e.g., I don't find this being shared with the SPRING WG for their review.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] No, they are not applicable to EVPN, but we will move these to
>>>>> their own section. AFAIR, Spring WG was CCed either during WG adoption or
>>>>> WGLC of the document.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 627     6.  Dampening of MVPN routes
>>>>>
>>>>> <minor> I am missing what is SR P2MP specific here. Is this all not
>>>>> generic?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Yes it is generic, but Leaf A-D routes should be dampened as
>>>>> described in the second paragraph of this section. Otherwise, a rapidly
>>>>> flapping Leaf node can impact the volume of ingress PE to controller
>>>>> signalling for Leaf addition/deletion. So this section is just for the
>>>>> SHOULD recommendation. We can remove it if it does not contribute to the
>>>>> document.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> I was wondering if I am missing something specific to SR P2MP. I
>>>>> will leave it to the authors - no issue in retaining this text from my 
>>>>> side.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Ok.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 642     7.  SR P2MP Trees for EVPN
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> There is no reference to RFC9252 here for SRv6 which I find
>>>>> strange,
>>>>> perhaps I am missing something.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] There is no reference to RFC 9252 because this document does not
>>>>> change any procedures in Section 6.3 (IMET route over SRv6) which clearly
>>>>> is specified for IR because the last paragraph in that section is "Usage 
>>>>> of
>>>>> multicast trees as P-tunnels is outside the scope of this document."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Correct. However, it is not as clear to some readers (I've gotten
>>>>> complaints as co-author of RFC9252 :-() ... so, it would be good to 
>>>>> clarify
>>>>> this part in this document. Note that RFC9252 does not cover IR for EVPN
>>>>> RFC9625 which this document covers?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] I don't think RFC 9625 introduces any new requirements for IR,
>>>>> or am I missing anything?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no elaborations (subsections) for
>>>>> ingress replication and SR P2MP tree usage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] IR for IMET EVPN is already specified in RFC 7432 and 9252. SR
>>>>> P2MP tree usage for EVPN is mainly about encoding the PTA field in various
>>>>> EVPN routes that carry this attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Hope my previous comments have clarified.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Yes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no reference to the SRv6
>>>>> Endpoint Behaviors to be used nor for the SRv6 encoding as explained
>>>>> for MVPN.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] The SRv6 Multicast Endpoint behaviors defined in this document
>>>>> are for L3 only because End.DT4/6 are specific for unicast.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> What are the SRv6 behaviors to be used for EVPN? Just the End.DT2M
>>>>> or also the ones introduced in this document? For both IR and P2MP Tree.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Yes, just the End.DT2M, but we will add text of how this SID is
>>>>> encoded in SRH for SRv6 P2MP trees and the processing on egress PEs to use
>>>>> the Arg.FE2 portion for ESI filtering.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 673        SRv6 P2MP trees can serve as an underlay multicast as
>>>>> described in
>>>>> 674        RFC 8293 Section 3.4 (
>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8293#section-
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> There is no description of SRv6 in RFC8293
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] AFAIR, this text was added based on a comment by Luc Andre Burdet
>>>>> during WG adoption. But I agree, RFC 8293 does not refer to SR and
>>>>> therefore this paragraph can be removed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Perhaps cross-check if there is another better reference and if
>>>>> not, then this document should be covering it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2]  We will remove the text related to RFC 8293.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 765     10.  Security Considerations
>>>>>
>>>>> 767        The procedures in this document do not introduce any
>>>>> additional
>>>>> 768        security considerations beyond those mentioned in [RFC6513]
>>>>> and
>>>>> 769        [RFC6514].  For general security considerations applicable
>>>>> to SR P2MP
>>>>> 770        Policy and Replication segments, please refer to
>>>>> 771        [I-D.ietf-pim-sr-p2mp-policy] and [RFC9524] respectively.
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> Anything on EVPN?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Added references to EVPN RFCs 7432 and 9572
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 887        [I-D.ietf-idr-sr-policy-safi]
>>>>> 888                   Previdi, S., Filsfils, C., Talaulikar, K.,
>>>>> Mattes, P., and
>>>>> 889                   D. Jain, "Advertising Segment Routing Policies
>>>>> in BGP",
>>>>> 890                   Work in Progress, Internet-Draft,
>>>>> draft-ietf-idr-sr-
>>>>> 891                   policy-safi-13, 6 February 2025,
>>>>> 892                   <
>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-idr-sr-
>>>>> 893                   policy-safi-13>.
>>>>>
>>>>> <nit> This is now RFC9830 ... but perhaps this reference isn't even
>>>>> required?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] Yes, this has been discussed in response to the above comment
>>>>> about Color EC. Once we conclude, I will either remove this reference or
>>>>> change it to RFC 9830.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Retained the reference as explained above.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 895        [RFC5331]  Aggarwal, R., Rekhter, Y., and E. Rosen, "MPLS
>>>>> Upstream
>>>>> 896                   Label Assignment and Context-Specific Label
>>>>> Space",
>>>>> 897                   RFC 5331, DOI 10.17487/RFC5331, August 2008,
>>>>> 898                   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5331>.
>>>>>
>>>>> 900        [RFC6625]  Rosen, E., Ed., Rekhter, Y., Ed., Hendrickx, W.,
>>>>> and R.
>>>>> 901                   Qiu, "Wildcards in Multicast VPN Auto-Discovery
>>>>> Routes",
>>>>> 902                   RFC 6625, DOI 10.17487/RFC6625, May 2012,
>>>>> 903                   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6625>.
>>>>>
>>>>> 905        [RFC7432]  Sajassi, A., Ed., Aggarwal, R., Bitar, N.,
>>>>> Isaac, A.,
>>>>> 906                   Uttaro, J., Drake, J., and W. Henderickx, "BGP
>>>>> MPLS-Based
>>>>> 907                   Ethernet VPN", RFC 7432, DOI 10.17487/RFC7432,
>>>>> February
>>>>> 908                   2015, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7432>.
>>>>>
>>>>> 910        [RFC7899]  Morin, T., Ed., Litkowski, S., Patel, K., Zhang,
>>>>> Z.,
>>>>> 911                   Kebler, R., and J. Haas, "Multicast VPN State
>>>>> Damping",
>>>>> 912                   RFC 7899, DOI 10.17487/RFC7899, June 2016,
>>>>> 913                   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7899>.
>>>>>
>>>>> 915        [RFC9256]  Filsfils, C., Talaulikar, K., Ed., Voyer, D.,
>>>>> Bogdanov,
>>>>> 916                   A., and P. Mattes, "Segment Routing Policy
>>>>> Architecture",
>>>>> 917                   RFC 9256, DOI 10.17487/RFC9256, July 2022,
>>>>> 918                   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9256>.
>>>>>
>>>>> 920        [RFC9572]  Zhang, Z., Lin, W., Rabadan, J., Patel, K., and
>>>>> A.
>>>>> 921                   Sajassi, "Updates to EVPN Broadcast, Unknown
>>>>> Unicast, or
>>>>> 922                   Multicast (BUM) Procedures", RFC 9572,
>>>>> 923                   DOI 10.17487/RFC9572, May 2024,
>>>>> 924                   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9572>.
>>>>>
>>>>> 926        [RFC9573]  Zhang, Z., Rosen, E., Lin, W., Li, Z., and IJ.
>>>>> Wijnands,
>>>>> 927                   "MVPN/EVPN Tunnel Aggregation with Common
>>>>> Labels",
>>>>> 928                   RFC 9573, DOI 10.17487/RFC9573, May 2024,
>>>>> 929                   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9573>.
>>>>>
>>>>> 931        [RFC9625]  Lin, W., Zhang, Z., Drake, J., Rosen, E., Ed.,
>>>>> Rabadan,
>>>>> 932                   J., and A. Sajassi, "EVPN Optimized Inter-Subnet
>>>>> Multicast
>>>>> 933                   (OISM) Forwarding", RFC 9625, DOI
>>>>> 10.17487/RFC9625, August
>>>>> 934                   2024, <https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9625>.
>>>>>
>>>>> <major> Please review the entire set of RFCs above - at least some of
>>>>> them
>>>>> (e.g., 9572, 9256) should be normative? If they are required to
>>>>> implement the
>>>>> solution in this document, then that makes them normative. If they are
>>>>> providing additional information reference then that should reflect in
>>>>> the
>>>>> text where they are referenced. Some clarity on informative vs
>>>>> normative would
>>>>> help.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP] I have moved EVPN RFCs 7432 and 9572 to the Normative section. I
>>>>> don't think RFC 9256 is normative for this document; it is normative for
>>>>> the base draft-ietf-pim-sr-p2mp-policy document. The rest are Informative
>>>>> references and should remain in that section.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> KT> Isn't 6625 required for the MVPN discovery that is normative text
>>>>> in this document?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [RP2] Not strictly, but I will move it to normative section since RFC
>>>>> 6514 is also normative.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ketan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <EoRv15>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BESS mailing list -- [email protected]
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________
BESS mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to