Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > >i don't follow you. can you demonstrate a test case of the problem you > forsee? > > > I already did, further up the thread, and someone else did too. Many > people rip single songs from CDs (or incomplete album rips), and thus > subsequently edit tags to remove the album name, so the songs appear > under Artist->No Album.
fine, no beef there. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > If the ripper sets id3v1 and id3v2 tags, and the user removes the album > name post rip, the id3v1 tag will be retrieved, not the blank id3v2 > album name. if someone wanted to remove the album tag, and they do it from only v2 tags, thats not only hard to do, but their deliberate fault. the other guy in this thread has already said he plans to delete v1 tags so what the beef? (he could copy v2 to v1 too for that matter, what parts would fit anyway) its hard to do what he did, for most users, and its almost NEVER desired, as it wasn't for him (which he admitted). in most mainstream and even non-mainstream apps, if you delete the album info, the app will delete it from both tags. thats not just common, its almost universal. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > Now, if all rippers and editors always set/clear id3v1 and id3v2 tags, they almost all uniformly DO do so when applying tag data that exists in BOTH tagging formats. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > then there wouldn't be a problem, but conversely, there would never be a > need to merge multiple tag blocks together because the last one read > would be the final result. and you're not listening. i demonstrated how when RG is applied, it creates a v2 tag without populating anything else in the v2 tag. in fact, it would do this regardless of whether v1 existed or not. so in "your way" when v2 was read last, the user would have nothing to populate the SBS DB with b/c all fields other than RG are blank. doing it "andys way" if v1 info is present, and v2 is blank except for RG or other v2 specific fields, then at least the v1 info will populate the SBS DB. i simply can't understand why anyone has a problem with that? its better to do that, and have the music show up, then have it missing, esp since most of the time, most users will be happy with the v1 info in the first place. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > Another point: multi-value tags that have different content are to be > merged. So, if you set comments you get id3v1 comments and id3v2 > comments where they are different to id3v1 (to avoid duplicates). > However, id3v1, being a bit rubbish, has a max size, after which text is > truncated, so potentially this would not be seen as a duplicate, and > you'd end up with two comments, the first being a truncated version of > the second. better to have that happen then to have music totally missing from view. besides, maybe andy has accounted for this? i think v1 only gets used if v2 is blank. these are multiple comments from multiple tag standards, not multiple comments within a tag standard. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > What about artists - will it merge the set of artists together, or will > id3v2 override id3v1? This isn't the case for comments. i don't see what is unclear? if v2 isn't blank, v2 will be used, not v1. it doesn't care if they match or not. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > What about genres - id3v1 have id's for fixed genre lookups. Will this > be merged with id3v2 or overriden by id3v2? based on what andy has said, again, if v2 is blank it will use v1. otherwise, it just uses v2. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > Other formats may have other nuances. > > It makes for more complex rules (both code and explanations). > > That may lead to slower scan times, larger mem usage. not according to andy. i don't see any problems at all with this that make not fixing it better than fixing it. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > > >b/c SBS is not a tag editor, its a music server. its main focus is > >playing the music you have. it can't do that if your files don't > show > >in the library. > > > Music will show up, even if artist, album and song are blank. They > will appear within No Artist->No Album. If it's wrong, fix the tags. when i filed this bug, that was not the case. r u sure thats the case now w/preandy fix SBS? how do you navigate to that? did u try my bug file? let me be more precise: if you went Home > Albums and had big artwork on and artist, year, album set, (the only webUI view i regularly use and totally valid to do so btw), the files that had v2 blank except for RG did not show up ANYWHERE in that listing. not under "no album" not under "no artist." thats a problem. i can't say/recall if i looked elsewhere in SBS for the music, but then again, i didn't need to. i found a problem that applied to common SBS usage. so i can't say if it was missing from EVERYWHERE in SBS, but certainly was from where i use it. you say "fix the tags." well while improving the tags is good advice, it 1. presumes the user knows the files are missing from view and "need improvement," and 2. presumes there is something invalid about the tags. neither is necessarily true. the whole point of the bug is to get the music to appear. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > > >(the scenario, which u can reproduce from the file attached in the > bug, > >was v1 files later having RG tags applied. in that case, ONLY RG was > in > >v2, the rest of v2 was blank. still looked fine in winamp (and other > >apps), but missing all together from SBS) > > > Is that really a case that happens a lot? Firstly, not many people > rip/edit with id3v1-only tags, secondly the people who do, are they > likely to add replaygain tags using a tool that reads id3v1 tags but > only sets replaygain tag data in id3v2, without rewriting all tags back > out as id3v2? It sounds rather unusual/wrong. maybe so, but its more likely than the case of properly maintaining v2 tags while simultaneously ignoring v1 tags, which isn't the default of any mainstream app. i'd guess you don't p2p a lot. i don't as much as i used to but i still do. i get many, MANY files that don't have any tags, have v1 only, have weird butchered tags, etc... it happens a lot. and a lot of longtime users could have a lot of v1 files that they applied RG tags to, b/c afterall RG is a newer feature and will be applied to a lot of older existing data. i agree with you that a program probably should import v1 into v2 if its going to write v2 from scratch when doing a RG function, but thats beyond logitechs control. Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > > >in the past you have always argued for SBS to *show you* whats wrong > in > >your tags. well, how can it do that if it doesn't even show you > >anything? > > > Yes, I think displaying the raw tag data for a song is a reasonable > idea. If a song doesn't appear in the library where expected, then the > user could look in song info > tag data to see what tag scheme was read, > and what other tags appear in the file. Then the user can fix it. but how would they get to it if it was simply missing? again, in the view i mentioned above, how would u know to go to a place where you could see "raw tag info" if you had ZERO INDICATION something wasn't there? and since it wasn't there, even if you knew it was missing, how would you do it? what would you click on? are we expecting users to know to try a wholly different view, if indeed the missing music does appear under a different view than the one i use? (which i have no evidence of) Philip Meyer;478943 Wrote: > > >well, i said it above, but most users use mainstream apps, and most > >mainstream apps by default keep v1 and v2 congruent, to avoid > confusing > >discrepencies in their own native usage. > > > >again, the problem is when a specific v2 tag is applied, like RG, > when > >a file only had v1 tags to start. not all apps copy v1 into v2 when > the > >RG (or whatever) is applied. > > > Aren't those two paras are contradictory? You're saying that most apps > write id3v1 and id3v2 tags to avoid discrepancies (although this by > default causes discrepancies, because id3v1 is a very small subset and > truncated strings), but applying replaygain to an id3v1-only file could > write id3v2 replaygain tags without keeping v1 and v2 congruent. call it whatever you like, its the reality of the situation. almost every mainstream app i have ever used will update v1 and v2 simultaneously if you update say the album or artist name thru their tag editor. some will create a v2 from scratch (i think) if none is there, and apply v1 into v2 as well as your edit at the time of application. some will just update v1 with your edit if v2 doesn't exist. meanwhile, since RG (and some other fields) are v2 only, some apps will create a v2 tag and not copy anything from v1 into them. thats what winamp, a very widespread mainstream app, does. i'm not here to defend why other apps do what they do or don't do. i simply want SBS to handle the jungle out there in the best way possible. i'll repeat what i said several posts ago: > if you have to decide between solutions, its better to have the music > simply SHOWUP in SBS, and handle problems from that point on, then to > simply not have it there at all!!! which is how it was before Andy fixed > it. -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 & sbc (my home) / sbr (parent's home) - sbs 7.4.2b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 35k mp3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70456 _______________________________________________ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
