I agree that it is a good question that needs a clear answer. At first, it 
seemed obvious to me that someone driving a car would use the parking lane (to 
the right of the bike lane on Segoe) to make a right-on-red - or any right 
turn.  Upon reflection, though, that's not so clear from a driver's seat.  That 
still seems to me to be the right choice, but some kind of marking/signage 
would be needed to make that clear.  


On Jul 11, 2011, at 9:42 AM, STRAWSER, Charles wrote:

> I think it's a good question. And this is a good place to discuss it, as I
> think a forum for motorists would mostly conclude an arguably correct answer
> but because of the wrong reasons.
> 
> I'm not that familiar with the area being discussed, so I'll speak in general
> terms here:
> 
> If the bike lane is intended for through (not turning) cyclists, then it's
> arguable perfectly reasonable and legal for a car to sit in the bike lane
> while waiting to turn right on red. After all, a bicyclist who wanted to go
> straight would have to wait for the green light anyway. This is why many bike
> lanes in this situation would go from a solid white land to a dashed white
> line as they approach the intersection, which helps to indicate merging
> traffic.
> 
> On the other hand, that would not be the ideal street design. If the lane is
> intended for through cyclists, and there are a lot of (Motor Vehicle) right
> turns there, then the lane should be striped to the left of a right turn lane
> (that could be used by both MVs and cyclists, of course).
> 
> But there may not be room at this location for everything, which means a
> decision is made to better allocate space on the street to some movements
> over others. Typically allocation is made according to the majority of
> existing movements, but of course this tends to enforce the negative feedback
> loop of - no bicyclists (or pedestrians) here, so no (more or better)
> facilities needed for them here.
> 
> Chuck Strawser
> Pedestrian & Bicycle Transportation Planner
> Commuter Solutions
> Transportation Services
> UW-Madison
> Room 124 WARF
> 610 Walnut St
> Madison WI 53726
> 608-263-2969
> www.wisc.edu/trans
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric White
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 10:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Bikies] Public Hearing to Discuss Segoe Rd. Protected BikeLane
> Extension
> 
> I don't mean for it to be counterproductive.  I'm a year-round bike
> commuter.  I also sometimes drive a car on Segoe.  And I'm pretty sure
> I'm not the only one who sometimes drives this street who is honestly
> confused as to the proper driver behavior at this intersection.
> Asking a list, say, devoted to driving a car would probably give me a
> "sure, why couldn't you sit in the bike lane?" response.  I thought
> folks here might have a more insightful (read "correct") answer.
> 
> My apologies if that's counterproductive.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 10:27 PM,  <[email protected]> wrote:
>> You know, as a bikie list serve this question seems counterproductive.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eric White
>> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:45 PM
>> To: William Obermeyer
>> Cc: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Bikies] Public Hearing to Discuss Segoe Rd. Protected Bike
>> Lane Extension
>> 
>> Ha.  Sorry.  Should have noted that my question assumes I'm driving,
>> not pedaling here.  Can I sit in a car in the bike lane hear and turn
>> right on red?
>> 
>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 7:41 PM, William Obermeyer
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> There's already a bike lane stub that begins just before the Segoe-Mineral
>> Point intersection, and whether you can make a safe right on red is a
>> function of the traffic, which is often heavy.  There's some danger of a
>> right-hook, but _most_ drivers I've encountered seem aware of the problem.
>>> Even so, I wouldn't do it.  I find that stretch of Mineral Point so
>> miserable for bike riding, and the Mineral Point-Midvale intersection so
>> unfriendly (on Mineral Point) that I'd sturn right on Keating and take that
>> eastbound.  Even though there's no light at the Keating-Midvale
>> intersection, it feels more bike friendly (to me) than the Mineral Point -
>> Midvale intersection.
>>> (Note: I have not had any problems making right turns  from the bike lane
>> on Segoe north of MPRd - presumably the model for the proposed bike lanes
>> south of MPRd)
>>> 
>>> On Jul 8, 2011, at 7:25 PM, Eric White wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I have a question about this bike lane.  If I'm heading N on Segoe and
>>>> I want to turn R on Mineral Point, can I wait in the bike lane and
>>>> turn right on red there?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Amanda White <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>>> The City is seeking public feedback on extending the Segoe Rd. separated
>>>>> bike lane past Mineral Point Road to Odana Road. This would eliminate a
>>>>> through traffic lane in both directions on Segoe.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's a great opportunity and I hope some of you will be able to attend
>> and
>>>>> voice your support of this project.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wed. July 13
>>>>> 6:30pm
>>>>> Westwood Christian Church
>>>>> 5210 Odana Rd.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Amanda
>>>>> ________________________
>>>>> Amanda White
>>>>> Associate Director
>>>>> Bicycle Federation of Wisconsin
>>>>> (608) 251-4456
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> www.bfw.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bikies mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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