Jason, I certainly can't explain that. If the car on the left is at a stop sign, you're crowded into it. Also, the alternate maneuver, going around the long way to turn left, would be dangerous if there's oncoming traffic that thinks you're going to continue straight on. That's why I don't like these. Two options, both bad. The basic problem is nobody knows what the other guy's going to do. That's inherently dangerous.
-------------Patrick Lenon Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:36:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [Bikies] Traffic circle accidents worry Kitsilano residents From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Patrick. Thank you for the documents. Can anyone explain to me why - if nothing is posted at the circle - roadway users are permitted to turn left in front of the circle? (Shown in the 2nd doc Patrick included) This is a common maneuver in my neighborhood (at Edgewood and Westlawn) and seems to increase the potential for some of the most dangerous interactions - head on crashes - that well designed intersections should help prevent (see roundabouts). Interested to hear back Jason On Wednesday, May 22, 2013, Patrick Lenon wrote: I'm glad you differentiated between roundabouts and traffic circles. The main difference to me is I am all in favor of roundabouts, and absolutely hate traffic circles. I have to maneuver around several circles regularly. On straight streets I consider them a hazard at any speed. It's basically like swerving to dodge an imaginary squirrel. Night visibility is a big problem. At two-way stop intersections they are confusing, particularly when turning left. Nobody seems to know whether they should cut through the direct way or go around. Either way maneuvering space is lost, forcing vehicles into each other. Here's the city's official FAQ on why these things exist: http://www.cityofmadison.com/trafficengineering/ntmpfaq.cfm Buried in there is a very nice set of guidelines on how to maneuver traffic circles (which unfortunately hardly anyone seems to have read): http://www.cityofmadison.com/trafficengineering/documents/legalleftturn07212004.pdf END rant. -------------Patrick Lenon Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 11:40:10 -0500 From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Bikies] Traffic circle accidents worry Kitsilano residents Interesting. The circles in the video seem to be a cross between two different types of infrastructure: 1. a traffic circle - that is a traffic calming device, and 2. a roundabout, which is usually a replacement for a traffic signal. I think it would work if the sight lines were better - i.e. no tall vegetation - and people entered the intersection at a very slow speed - maybe 10 mph. Think of the whole thing like a giant uncontrolled intersection - never assume that you have the right of way, and know that you will likely have to yield someone else at least half the time, maybe more. The traffic circle in my neighborhood - the very first traffic calming project in Madison - has a 2-way stop on one street and through street on the other. It's not meant to dictate right of way, just to get people to go slower. We haven't had any problems in the over 15 years it's been there, and it's on Kendall, a major bike route. Robbie Webber Transportation Policy Analyst State Smart Transportation Initiative www.ssti.us 608-263-9984 (o) 608-225-0002 (c) [email protected] On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:46 AM, S. Morris Rose <[email protected]> wrote: This is an interesting development- City of Vancouver (in British Columbia... in Canada?... America's Hat?) are actually removing traffic circles after crash data has shown that they have a negative impact on cyclist safety. I think the expectation when these things were added- there are hundreds of them here- was that the impact would be positive. But it turns out that reduced sight distances and confusion about semantics make the effect negative. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/05/20/bc-traffic-circle-concerns.html -- Scott M. Rose West Point Grey, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org _______________________________________________ Bikies mailing list [email protected] http://lists.danenet.org/listinfo.cgi/bikies-danenet.org
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