Hi Justin. That is your definition of abandoned, not everyone may agree with your definition. With out a specific statement that says the software is abandoned then you have no way of knowing whether your definition applies.
How do you know that a company hasn't sold the IPR to someone else, how do you know that the company hasn't rebranded? Its these kinds of points that make this so interesting, and why this isn't black and white. Thanks. Nick. -----Original Message----- From: blind-gamers@groups.io <blind-gamers@groups.io> On Behalf Of Justin Jones Sent: 01 April 2020 16:05 To: blind-gamers@groups.io Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Give me your thoughts I made it very clear what constitutes "abandonment" in my examples; there is no ambiguity here, but I will have another go at it: If you release a piece of software and sell it, then you own that software and have the right to pursue legal action against people that crack said piece of software. If you indicate that you are discontinuing support for that piece of software, but still maintain your web site and your business, your rights to pursue legal action still exist. However, if you dissolve your business and shut down your web site, then you have "abandoned" that software and any legal rights to it. I hope this clarifies my position a bit more. On 4/1/20, Nick and Gemma Adamson <n...@ndadamson.com> wrote: > Hi Justin. > I understand your position. > The Obvious point here is who makes the decision that the item has > been abandoned. > Surely the only person that can make that decision is the owner. > > Take your example. > I'd be pretty ticked off if I left food in a public area and someone > went and ate it on the assumption that it had been "abandoned". If I > said to the rest of the people in the house, "I don't want this help > yourself" then that’s been abandoned, but without that statement if I > put it down, walk away from it as far as everyone else in the house is > concerned then it's not been abandoned and they would be wrong to eat it. > > Let's take that a bit further. > If I left something in a shared house, left the house and forgot the > thing, I would still be in my rights to go back and pick it up, I've > not abandoned it. That is why a tenancy agreement often has a > statement regarding what happens to any belongings you leave in the house at > the end of your tenancy. > With out some sort of agreement of the owner of the item detailing how > transfer of ownership happens then know one has the right to take > ownership of something without the consent of the original owner. > > My point on this stuff is unless someone has specifically released all > rights to something, then they still own it, and there for its not > abandoned. > > Thanks. > Nick. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: blind-gamers@groups.io <blind-gamers@groups.io> On Behalf Of > Justin Jones > Sent: 01 April 2020 14:33 > To: blind-gamers@groups.io > Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Give me your thoughts > > I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you here. If you, as a developer, > have abandoned, and this is very deliberate wording here, rather than > stopped supporting, again, very specific wording here, you have, in > essence, given up any pretense at ownership. Now, if you, as a > developer, see that there is interest in that old product and you pick > it up again/start selling it on your web site, then the software is not > abandoned. > > Short answer: you are not stealing something that has been abandoned > (see above for what I mean by "abandoned"). > > Since you answered my question, I will answer yours. If someone "abandons," > and not merely mislays/misplaces something, then they have given up > all ownership to it. If I, for instance, have some canned food that I > do not want and simply leave out in my apartment building's lounge, I > have abandoned that property, i.e. given up any pretense at ownership. > If someone abandons a farm and there are still crops growing there, > then those crops are free for the taking by anyone who wants them. > Regarding buildings, that gets a little more complicated as there are > other ordinances that may be in place that dictates what happens to a > building that has been abandoned. Make sense? > > On 4/1/20, Nick and Gemma Adamson <n...@ndadamson.com> wrote: >> Hi Justin. >> A single word, consent. >> It comes down to who owns the intellectual property. >> As a dev When I write software for my company they own the >> intellectual property, when I code in my own time, what little of it >> I get, I own the intellectual property. >> >> As the owner of the property, weather physical or not it is still my >> property and there for its my choice what I do with it. >> As to harm, there's absolutely no harm, however in my eyes its still >> classified as steeling. >> >> Its very different if the dev makes a public statement abandoning the >> work. >> At that point they may specifically say that they release all rights >> to the software, then at that point go for it. But IMO unless the dev >> specifically says that then it's still their property and by making >> assumptions about weather something has been abandoned or not your >> taking the dev's IP without consent. >> >> For me this is all about consent. >> >> So, I've answered your question, I'd love to hear your answers to my >> questions, I'm genuinely interested in to how people think on this >> kind of thing. >> >> Thanks. >> Nick. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: blind-gamers@groups.io <blind-gamers@groups.io> On Behalf Of >> Justin Jones >> Sent: 01 April 2020 11:21 >> To: blind-gamers@groups.io >> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Give me your thoughts >> >> I am going to counter your question with a question: what is the harm >> in using software that a developer no longer uses/makes any profit >> off of? >> >> On 4/1/20, Nick and Gemma Adamson <n...@ndadamson.com> wrote: >>> Hi all. >>> >>> Interesting conversation. >>> So far everyone has pretty much said its fine. >>> Other than "So I can play it" are what are your reasons for this. >>> >>> I come at it from a slightly different angle, although i get why >>> some of you think it's OK and I also don't feel software should just die. >>> If it was a physical thing, car, building, computer, whatever, that >>> had been abandoned would you think it would be OK to take it in that >>> scenario? That's not a judgemental question, it’s an open enquiry. >>> How about an abandoned farm, would you take some of the fruit or >>> whatever was growing? If you say no to a physical thing but yes to >>> software, why do you see it as being different, again, I'm making no >>> judgements, I'm genuinely interested in your thinking. >>> If you think its OK and this is justified because we don't have that >>> many games, what is your thinking for why this should change things? >>> >>> >>> Personally, if you've bought the game and but are unable to access >>> your key then I would say it's OK. If not or the game was freeware >>> then I'd say no. >>> The software is owned by the developer and what they choose to do >>> with it is up to them, if they choose to abandon it then that is >>> there choice, I don't think we have the right to take their work >>> without permission, even if that does mean that the game is no >>> longer available. >>> >>> Having said that, as a dev, I'm maybe a bit biased. >>> Thanks. >>> Nick. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: blind-gamers@groups.io <blind-gamers@groups.io> On Behalf Of >>> Justin Jones >>> Sent: 01 April 2020 10:40 >>> To: blind-gamers@groups.io >>> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Give me your thoughts >>> >>> If the developer indeed no longer has a presence/does not support >>> their software, then the game would be classified as "abandonware." >>> The answer, most definitively, is no, it is not wrong to crack >>> abandonware. >>> >>> On 4/1/20, michael barnes <c...@samobile.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Me personally I don't think it is wrong. Especially if you >>>> purchased the software. >>>> I also don't think it is wrong if the developer just up and left >>>> with no trace to contact the developer. That is just like Bavisoft >>>> and VipGamesZone. >>>> It is sad for those who want to get a copy of a software that is no >>>> longer available for purchase and download. I personally don't see >>>> anything wrong with giving that person a crack to activate the >>>> software. Obviously the developer don't care what happens to their >>>> software. >>>> If the developer care for what happens with their software then >>>> they would do a couple of things. One they would unlock it so that >>>> people could get it. >>>> Two they would at least have a way for you to contact them to get >>>> the software even if you have to pay for it. I see this happening a >>>> lot in the audio game world. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >>> atreides...@gmail.com >>> (254) 624-9155 >>> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Justin M. Jones, M.A. >> atreides...@gmail.com >> (254) 624-9155 >> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Justin M. Jones, M.A. > atreides...@gmail.com > (254) 624-9155 > 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 > > > > > > > > -- Justin M. Jones, M.A. atreides...@gmail.com (254) 624-9155 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#122014): https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/message/122014 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/72691955/21656 Group Owner: blind-gamers+ow...@groups.io Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/blind-gamers/leave/607459/1071380848/xyzzy [arch...@mail-archive.com] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
