LGTM1. In general, I agree with Alex's suggestion that we should be gathering developer feedback via OT, and particularly in cases where there's only marginally web-exposed surface so that we get developers exercising the embedder-level integration points to give y'all feedback on whether or not those integration points meet their expectations.
That said, I don't see much value in an OT for this particular API given the way that its web-exposed surface is really all about spelling. I'm also a little concerned that an OT would be non-trivial to implement, given the fact that we'll be well outside of any particular document context at the point when the integration would be executed. So, I think it's reasonable to bypass in this particular case. -mike On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 4:28 AM Glen Robertson <glen...@chromium.org> wrote: > There have been some expressions of interest on the github issue > <https://github.com/WICG/manifest-incubations/issues/25> (including some > fairly sizable apps). There were also some suggestions to use a more > generalised interface, but I'm still convinced by the arguments made in the > explainer > <https://github.com/WICG/manifest-incubations/blob/gh-pages/note_taking-explainer.md#alternatives-considered> > (summarized from discussion with other web platform devs > <https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/965>) that a specific, top-level > field is appropriate. This is more along the lines of bike-shedding so I > don't think an OT would help settle the discussion. > > Is this now sufficient developer interest to ship? > > > On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 at 13:34, Glen Robertson <glen...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> Thanks Alex. >> I'd prefer to ship instead of OT if reasonable, so I've asked a few >> note-taking-web-app developers directly if they're interested and made a >> github issue for them to post on >> <https://github.com/WICG/manifest-incubations/issues/25> (I feel like >> there wasn't an obvious avenue/CTA for them to publicly express support >> before). I've also asked DevRel if they will point people at that link. >> >> I'll give that a few days and will fall back to an OT (in M94) if we >> don't see sufficient interest expressed. >> >> On Fri, 13 Aug 2021 at 06:16, Alex Russell <slightly...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> hey Glen, >>> >>> We discussed again today in the OWNERs meeting and it seems like a good >>> idea to get stronger developer signals here one way or another. I'm LGTM if >>> you want to run an OT instead of shipping directly to do that, else we can >>> engage with our various developer relations teams to see if there's some >>> way to drum up support for the design as-is. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> On Wednesday, August 11, 2021 at 12:23:39 AM UTC-7 Glen Robertson wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for checking around MSFT, Alex. >>>> >>>> The reason we didn't go with an OT here was because the API seemed >>>> small and uncontroversial and unlikely to change shape. We already had an >>>> interested internal customer (plus there are many other note-taking web >>>> apps out there, and existing users of the similar feature for note-taking >>>> Chrome Apps). I didn't think it fit any of the bullet points under "Should >>>> you run an origin trial? >>>> <https://www.chromium.org/blink/origin-trials/running-an-origin-trial#TOC-Should-you-run-an-origin-trial->" >>>> (perhaps the default assumption in that documentation should be flipped to >>>> "you should run an OT unless in exceptional circumstances"?). >>>> >>>> If lack of interest is a problem we can disable the flag for M93 and >>>> start an OT in M94 instead. Blink Leads, please let me know if that is >>>> required. >>>> >>>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 at 04:51, Alex Russell <slightly...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> hey Glen, >>>>> >>>>> I've reached out to teams here at MSFT to see if there are other folks >>>>> who need something similar, but don't have much to report. >>>>> >>>>> Given that this is a manifest change, it seems relatively low risk but >>>>> the lack of developer interest is a red flag. Is there a reason this >>>>> shouldn't go to OT first? >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, August 9, 2021 at 7:13:29 PM UTC-7 Glen Robertson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Is there any more needed from me here? M93 stable cut is coming up in >>>>>> about 2 weeks and it would be nice to avoid delaying this to the next >>>>>> release if possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are still no responses from Mozilla or Webkit on the standards >>>>>> positions requests, but the DevRel tweet has positive responses (38 likes >>>>>> and a positive reply). >>>>>> TAG hasn't made any recommendations yet, beyond asking for >>>>>> clarifications in the explainer (which I have done). >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 18:11, Glen Robertson <glen...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> There was a generally positive reaction on the DevRel tweet about it >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ChromiumDev/status/1417062059632644097>. >>>>>>> We also have a 1P app that is already using it in beta internally >>>>>>> (internal >>>>>>> CL <http://cl/380133411>). >>>>>>> There was some platform developer discussion here >>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/965> that led us to the >>>>>>> current design, but that was platform developers, not app developers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there some other avenue I can follow to get more feedback on the >>>>>>> API? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 at 05:22, Alex Russell <slightly...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As discussed in today's OWNERS meeting, it would be helpful to get >>>>>>>> developer signals. It's going to be hard to make a case that we should >>>>>>>> ship >>>>>>>> this w/o some form of input from folks who need or want it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 28, 2021 at 7:44:09 AM UTC-7 Colin Blundell >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 2:14 AM Jason Robbins <jrobb...@google.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sure. I have a pull request in review for the additional >>>>>>>>>> field-level help text: >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/GoogleChrome/chromium-dashboard/pull/1440/files >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> jason! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Looks great, thank you! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 5:55 AM Colin Blundell < >>>>>>>>>> blund...@google.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 9:15 AM Glen Robertson < >>>>>>>>>>> glen...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the clarification! In that case, the answer is >>>>>>>>>>>> definitely "yes". crbug.com/1185678 is a good record of code >>>>>>>>>>>> added to support the feature, though it relies on existing code >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> supported note-taking Chrome Apps. >>>>>>>>>>>> If possible, it would be nice to have a brief version of the >>>>>>>>>>>> question's intent shown in the I2S template generated by >>>>>>>>>>>> Chromestatus! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I assume that you mean something like: >>>>>>>>>>> "Reply "yes" here if your feature has any implementation code in >>>>>>>>>>> //chrome, >>>>>>>>>>> even if that's for functionality on top of the spec, so that other >>>>>>>>>>> //content embedders can be aware of that functionality." ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +Jason Robbins <jrobb...@google.com>, would you be able to add >>>>>>>>>>> this? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Colin >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 00:57, Colin Blundell < >>>>>>>>>>>> blund...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Glen, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Comment inline about the "requires code in //chrome?" question. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 8:27 AM Glen Robertson < >>>>>>>>>>>>> glen...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your replies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding signals: I've now requested positions from Mozilla >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Webkit, and asked for some help on the web developer front >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from DevRel. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding web platform tests: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the spec'd behaviour >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://wicg.github.io/manifest-incubations/index.html#new_note_url-member> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is intentionally that the user agent has no obligation to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new field. It may use it in some way, or ignore it. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing spec'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> behaviour of the web app manifest parser is that it must ignore >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unknown >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fields[*]. Therefore, if we are testing compliance with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spec, I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think there is new behaviour to test here. If you think I should >>>>>>>>>>>>>> add a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> note-taking-specific WPT test anyway I can. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *: I can't see a test for this, so I sent a CL >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://crrev.com/c/3038042>. And another CL >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://crrev.com/c/3038318> for adding a similar check in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> manifest_parser_unittest, because manual WPT tests aren't very >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reassuring! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re: "Requires code in //chrome? False" / OS integrations: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wasn't quite sure about the intent of this question. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spec doesn't require any code in chrome, and the field is parsed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms, but we do have code in //chrome to do an OS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> integration with it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The OS integration is on Chrome OS only: it shows the app in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the list of note-taking apps in CrOS settings (already existed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> note-taking Chrome Apps, but only visible if you have a stylus >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or --force-enable-stylus-tools) and, if selected by the user in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that list, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the app can be launched from the stylus palette in the toolbar. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good question! I just sent out information about this field. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The intent is for feature developers to reply "yes" here if their >>>>>>>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>>>>>>> has implementation code in //chrome, even if that's for >>>>>>>>>>>>> functionality on >>>>>>>>>>>>> top of the spec. The reason is that other //content embedders >>>>>>>>>>>>> might want to >>>>>>>>>>>>> mirror that functionality. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What happens when 2+ webapps all define note taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The spec doesn't define any required behaviour from the UA >>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon detecting a note-taking app. It is similarly up to the UA >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what to do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with multiple note-taking apps. In CrOS the list of note-taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> apps are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown in stylus settings and the user may select one to be used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stylus palette. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this capability feature detectable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No. If it's not supported then note-taking web apps just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operate like any other web app. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll wait on feedback from TAG and developer/vendor signals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 at 19:16, Yoav Weiss < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 11:08:38 AM UTC+2 Yoav Weiss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:34:35 AM UTC+2 Mike West >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 5:08 AM Glen Robertson < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> glen...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact emails glen...@chromium.org, mgi...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/manifest-incubations/blob/gh-pages/note_taking-explainer.md >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reading through the explainer I wonder: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * What happens when 2+ webapps all define note taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities? Which one wins? Or would the UA then present the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice, similar to native apps? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Is this capability feature detectable? Is there something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developers can do when it's not supported? (I'm guessing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's not much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can, but want to confirm) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wicg.github.io/manifest-incubations/index.html#note_taking-member >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> API spec Yes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Parses a web app manifest entry for a URL to open to take >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new note in a note-taking web app, allowing OS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chrome for desktop release: M93 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/648 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The TAG seem engaged, so it's worthwhile to wait for their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feedback. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review status Pending >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Gecko*: No signal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please ask for signals, as per >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://bit.li/blink-signals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similarly on the developer signals front, we have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goo.gle/developer-signals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ? Yes. No required behaviour. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure I follow. It doesn't look like any web >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform tests contain the string `note_taking`. Even if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web-facing behavior this influences, it seems reasonable to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add it to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test that verifies its parsing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag name blink::features::kWebAppNoteTaking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1185678, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see quite a bit of code that's landed in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //chrome/browser/{chromeos,web_applications, etc}. It seems >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature depends upon the embedder doing some work to create >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an integration >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a platform-level (or UA-level, I suppose) note-taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> application? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given that, are there platform restrictions on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature? Or is this limited to a subset of the platforms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink supports? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1185678 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Launch bug >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1189357 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Measurement When a web app is launched to create a note, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a LaunchResult::WEB_APP_SUCCESS is recorded. See: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:chrome/browser/chromeos/note_taking_helper.h;drc=d7a02514bb30afce607817fd2e8ef8a8af559739;l=130 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5205972320518144 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Status <https://www.chromestatus.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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