Hey Javier!

The benefits of UKM is that it can give us a list of URLs that have some
breakage potential. The laternative is to cross the usecounter with
HTTPArchive data, but that has a strong bias towards homepages, so may miss
a lot of pages that require a login and are not the homepage. With a more
accurate list of URLs, we'd be able to better assess the usage and
potential breakage.

Cheers :)
Yoav

On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 3:52 AM Javier Garcia Visiedo <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi,
> I am starting a UKM collection review to opt in the existing use counter
> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/3873> into
> an UKM. Sorry if my question is too naive, I just wanted to understand what
> benefits would the UKM add over the existing use counter? Or is it the
> intention to add additional metrics to it? Thanks!
> Cheers
> Javier
>
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 1:33:19 AM UTC+9 Chris Harrelson wrote:
>
>> Hi, just checking in on this intent. From the API owners' perspective,
>> we're going to wait for the UKM, thanks.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 7:41 AM Yutaka Hirano <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Yoav,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the suggestions. I'll try to add UKM.
>>>
>>> > One other question that came up: Is the usage related to developers
>>> adding the "Authorization" header on their own, or is it something the
>>> browser sends under certain circumstances? (e.g. when receiving 401
>>> responses with "WWW-Autenticate" headers)
>>>
>>> This is only for authorization headers set by scripts (via fetch() and
>>> XHR). Authorization headers the browser attaches are out of scope.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 2:15 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Yutaka!
>>>>
>>>> We discussed this at the API owners meeting today (Daniel, Chris, Alex,
>>>> MikeT and myself).
>>>> It seems like the risk here is too high to remove support as is, and a
>>>> reasonable next step may be to add the metric to UKM and get a more
>>>> detailed view of which sites are using it and how. That would enable us to
>>>> better assess breakage, and reach out to those sites to reduce current
>>>> usage until potential breakage reaches acceptable levels.
>>>>
>>>> One other question that came up: Is the usage related to developers
>>>> adding the "Authorization" header on their own, or is it something the
>>>> browser sends under certain circumstances? (e.g. when receiving 401
>>>> responses with "WWW-Autenticate" headers)
>>>> Would renaming the headers used in such authentication protocols be a
>>>> useful alternative to consider? I'm guessing that doing that would require
>>>> server changes as well, so won't necessarily help with cases of existing
>>>> content, but may help to move newer auth flows to make safer CORS choices.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers :)
>>>> Yoav
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, December 9, 2021 at 12:17:40 PM UTC+1 Yutaka Hirano wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We've been showing a deprecation message since 94
>>>>> <https://chromiumdash.appspot.com/commit/9a817d69a132822ddf2954120e96a3efa2290071>.
>>>>> Sadly the deprecation message hasn't decreased the usage so far.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 1:52 AM Mike West <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From my perspective, it's a bit worrying that you found user-visible
>>>>>> breakage in a random sampling of the otherwise small number of sites that
>>>>>> fall into this category. As Yoav suggested, there's some additional
>>>>>> likelihood that we're not seeing some breakage that requires sign-in. It
>>>>>> might be worthwhile to raise a deprecation warning for this behavior, and
>>>>>> remove it after giving developers some time to adjust, perhaps with an
>>>>>> enterprise policy for good measure. I'd be happy with a 3-release 
>>>>>> timeline,
>>>>>> with removal thereafter. That might drive the usage down to the point 
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> we can reasonably remove it. If it doesn't, we might need to do some more
>>>>>> research (wiring this counter up to UKM, for instance) to see if we can
>>>>>> track down more clear sources of potential breakage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 6:56:40 AM UTC+1 Yutaka Hirano wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 12:29 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 4:00 PM Yutaka Hirano <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the delay!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I checked 10 sites. I saw console errors in three sites among them:
>>>>>>>>>  1. https://cchatty.com/
>>>>>>>>>  2. https://techrxiv.org/
>>>>>>>>>  3. https://bodyshake.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I only see a visible breakage in 1 (cards in the main panel are
>>>>>>>>> invisible). On other sites I don't see any visible differences.
>>>>>>>>> Please note that this feature is related to authorization so it is
>>>>>>>>> likely to break things when signing in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So it's possible that the breakage only occurs for logged in users,
>>>>>>>> and is not something you'd be able to see when spot checking their 
>>>>>>>> homepage?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, I think so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 8:11 PM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Friendly ping on Chris' question
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 8:31:36 PM UTC+1 Chris Harrelson
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Would it be feasible to get a random list of 10-20 sites that
>>>>>>>>>>> hit the use counter and see if they are broken badly by this 
>>>>>>>>>>> feature?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 4:54 AM Yutaka Hirano <
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (friendly ping)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 1:57 PM Yutaka Hirano <
>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have concrete steps for the investigation in your mind?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 4:30 AM Mike West <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's reasonable for us to dig into the data a little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit to determine whether the 0.04% number quoted above will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-facing breakage. Yutaka, is that something you'd be willing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to dig
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The direction seems philosophically correct to me, so I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to see it ship, but I'd also like to make sure we're not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web worse for users by doing so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:04 PM Yutaka Hirano <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 6:25 PM Yoav Weiss <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:55 AM Yutaka Hirano <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (The implementation CL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/3226283>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is under review. This intent is written as if it's landed.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#cors-non-wildcard-request-header-name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A CORS non-wildcard request header[1] is an HTTP request
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> header which is not covered by the wildcard symbol ("*") in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access-control-allow-headers header. "authorization" is the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only member of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CORS non-wildcard request-header. Currently we treat the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> header as a usual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> header, which is problematic for security reasons. Implement 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, and change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current behavior. 1:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#cors-non-wildcard-request-header-name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>SecurityFeature>CORS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ESecurityFeature%3ECORS>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot needed because this implements an existing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability risk is low because Mozilla and Apple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> showed an intent to implement this behavior. There is some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compatibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk, as the use counter[2] shows 0.04% websites would be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> affected. To
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mitigate the risk, we've shown a deprecation message for a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few milestones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you similarly send deprecation reports as well? How
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long have the deprecation messages been in place? Did we see 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any decline in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the numbers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We've shown the deprecation message since Chrome 94
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromiumdash.appspot.com/commit/9a817d69a132822ddf2954120e96a3efa2290071>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  whose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beta promotion was on Aug 26 and stable release was on Sep 21.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We use CountDeprecation which sends deprecation reports
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically IIUC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't see any decline.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have we looked into which URLs are triggering this? (and if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's a few medium-sized properties or many tiny ones)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't looked at the data.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did we try outreach?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have an enterprise policy so that administrators can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep the existing behavior. We're planning to remove the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policy on Chrome
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 103. 2:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/popularity#AuthorizationCovered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ByWildcard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Positive Firefox showed a positive signal in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Positive Apple showed a positive signal in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: No signals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll show a CORS error to the devtools console.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Yes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag nameCorsNonWildcardRequestHeadersSupport
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False (or, True only for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enterprise policy.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1176753
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 97
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5742041264816128
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected].
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABihn6G2mzUAH_Ghrqmb1xM7XetfKgB%3DMUkX0DED7yWbL4JfGg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABihn6G2mzUAH_Ghrqmb1xM7XetfKgB%3DMUkX0DED7yWbL4JfGg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABihn6GB-CbbCqx0VHa7%3DLoZr%2BZN-O7o7XwTGkxXEYQa9OfupQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected].
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABihn6EqkidJF3mjfnztmMnKrEpb%3DPTvW-kpW0s_bWCM%3DOXY8A%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABihn6EqkidJF3mjfnztmMnKrEpb%3DPTvW-kpW0s_bWCM%3DOXY8A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>

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