Hi everyone, just updating the thread to inform that this removal milestone 
has been changed to M106.

On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 2:13:53 PM UTC-7 Ayu Ishii wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Thank you for the approvals! I apologize for the delay here.
>
> We've confirmed that our impacted partner is now migrated off and we are 
> ready to proceed.
> We are targeting deprecation for M105.
>
> Thanks,
> Ayu
>
> On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 3:23:00 PM UTC-8 Chris Fredrickson wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Apologies for the delayed responses.
>>
>> Colm: there's no DevTools logging (e.g.) for eviction events, but you can 
>> observe storage eviction events on chrome://tracing, under the 
>> "browsing_data" category.
>>
>> Joe: we're waiting for an impacted partner before we ship this 
>> deprecation.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Monday, January 10, 2022 at 9:59:43 AM UTC-5 Joe Medley wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> When are you planning to ship?
>>> Joe Medley | Technical Writer, Chrome DevRel | jmed...@google.com | 
>>> 816-678-7195 <(816)%20678-7195>
>>> *If an API's not documented it doesn't exist.*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 1:17 PM Colm O Flynn <colm.ofl...@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quick question in relation to this.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any debug logging one can enable if one thinks that the 
>>>> browser is re-claiming files deleted from the temporary file system?
>>>> i.e. Where the browser would log that is deleting file x because 
>>>> storage limit has been hit?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, August 5, 2021 at 11:18:30 PM UTC+1 Marijn Kruisselbrink 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 2:41 PM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we have stats on potential storage pressure evictions that would 
>>>>>> be changed as a result of this change (as that appears to be the only 
>>>>>> place 
>>>>>> behavior differs)? And is there any UI that we display (e.g. in 
>>>>>> cache/storage clearing) that will be affected?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Good questions. No, I don't think we have stats that would tell us 
>>>>> potential changes to storage pressure evictions as a result of this 
>>>>> change. 
>>>>> Data stored in the persistent file system would indeed go from never 
>>>>> being 
>>>>> evicted today to being evicted with all other data an origin stores. 
>>>>> Having 
>>>>> said that, in more than 99.9% of the cases where we evict data, that data 
>>>>> has been last accessed years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as affected UI, the current UI isn't very good in displaying 
>>>>> this legacy persistent storage. I don't expect any of the storage 
>>>>> management UI to change, if anything getting rid of persistent quota will 
>>>>> mean less chance for bugs where we might inadvertently not count or 
>>>>> include 
>>>>> persistent storage when displaying information about a site. The main 
>>>>> thing 
>>>>> that will change UI wise is that there will no longer be a "foo.com 
>>>>> wants to permanently store data on your device" permission prompt that 
>>>>> accompanied usage of persistent quota.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, July 29, 2021 at 4:13:57 PM UTC-7 Chris Harrelson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> LGTM2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 9:48 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@chromium.org> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for clarifying! This seems like a low risk indeed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *LGTM1* to deprecate and remove (while keeping track of related 
>>>>>>>> issue, just in case)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 6:41 PM Marijn Kruisselbrink <
>>>>>>>> m...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To elaborate a bit more on the potential for breakage, I believe the 
>>>>>>>>> only way a website could be truly broken from this change is if it 
>>>>>>>>> somehow 
>>>>>>>>> relies on temporary and persistent quota being separate buckets. Not 
>>>>>>>>> sure 
>>>>>>>>> what kind of logic they would have to employ to actually be broken by 
>>>>>>>>> that 
>>>>>>>>> no longer being the case though. As such my expectation is that it is 
>>>>>>>>> extremely unlikely that any site will be broken by this. Certainly 
>>>>>>>>> none of 
>>>>>>>>> the sites in httparchive I looked at.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 1:25 PM Marijn Kruisselbrink <
>>>>>>>>> m...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 2:26 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@chromium.org> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Since the 0.4% usage numbers are suspected to be a very loose 
>>>>>>>>>>> upper-bound, I wonder what's the best strategy here.
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a way to use-count cases where storage quota would run 
>>>>>>>>>>> out as temporary but not as persistent? 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good question. I think today we actually generally allow websites 
>>>>>>>>>> to store much more data in the temporary quota bucket than in the 
>>>>>>>>>> persistent quota bucket. The latter is capped at 10GB, while the 
>>>>>>>>>> former in 
>>>>>>>>>> our histograms is more than 10GB 97% of the time on desktop, and 
>>>>>>>>>> even on 
>>>>>>>>>> mobile is larger than that 80% of the time (and actual usage doesn't 
>>>>>>>>>> tend 
>>>>>>>>>> to get anywhere remotely near these amounts in the vast majority of 
>>>>>>>>>> cases). 
>>>>>>>>>> So even if websites that are using the persistent file system are on 
>>>>>>>>>> average using a lot more data than other websites, in the majority 
>>>>>>>>>> of cases 
>>>>>>>>>> that should keep working just the same way.
>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If not, are you planning to roll this out with a kill-switch 
>>>>>>>>>>> while monitoring filed issues for breakage?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The described approach was intentionally picked to minimize the 
>>>>>>>>>> risk of breakage, as such I'm fairly confident that just rolling out 
>>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>>> change directly and relying on dev & beta coverage for issues should 
>>>>>>>>>> be 
>>>>>>>>>> safe enough. Having to support persistent quota for longer will make 
>>>>>>>>>> some 
>>>>>>>>>> other ongoing projects/refactoring in the area more challenging, so 
>>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>>> sooner we could get rid of the code the better. But if you feel the 
>>>>>>>>>> risk 
>>>>>>>>>> might be too high we certainly could roll this out with a 
>>>>>>>>>> kill-switch, we'd 
>>>>>>>>>> just prefer not to.  
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 6:21 PM Marijn Kruisselbrink <
>>>>>>>>>>> m...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 11:52 PM Mike West <mk...@chromium.org> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey folks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm quite supportive of deprecating the entire 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> `webkitRequestFileSystem` API, and this seems like a reasonable 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first step. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate the data you've gathered thus far through HTTP 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Archive, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your analysis matches my suppositions: incognito detection drove 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the usage, and since that abuse doesn't even work anymore 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1017120>, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the API serves little purpose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, 0.4% is a lot of percent. Is there a migration 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> story for folks who were using it in good faith? You pointed to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one or two 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sites in your analysis that seemed to be doing so: would we just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wipe 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> user's previously-persistent data, or would it be transparently 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switched to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary storage?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It perhaps wasn't entirely clear from what we wrote (and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> reading the explainer/design doc again, I agree it is sort of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> unclear), but 
>>>>>>>>>>>> what we're proposing won't cause any API call that previously 
>>>>>>>>>>>> worked to no 
>>>>>>>>>>>> longer do anything. We will still (for now) support 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `webkitRequestFileSystem`, both with PERSISTENT and TEMPORARY 
>>>>>>>>>>>> options, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> both those will still give you separate file systems. I.e. sites 
>>>>>>>>>>>> using 
>>>>>>>>>>>> either of both of these will keep working. What will change is the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> quota 
>>>>>>>>>>>> treatment of the PERSISTENT file system. I.e. we will start 
>>>>>>>>>>>> counting usage 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the persistent file system against the same quota as all other 
>>>>>>>>>>>> storage 
>>>>>>>>>>>> APIs. Concretely for websites that means that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `navigator.webkitPersistentStorage` will alias 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `navigator.webkitTemporaryStorage`, and similarly the methods on 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `window.webkitStorageInfo` will start ignoring the "type" 
>>>>>>>>>>>> parameter (as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> long as it is one of TEMPORARY or PERSISTENT).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With this, the expectation is that the number of websites that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> would actually be broken by this should be much much less than 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 0.4%. It's 
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard to put an exact number on it, since we're not currently 
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposing to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> make any API not work anymore, rather we're slightly changing the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of some of the legacy methods. A hypothetical website that somehow 
>>>>>>>>>>>> relies 
>>>>>>>>>>>> on temporary and persistent quota being separate could be broken 
>>>>>>>>>>>> by this, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> although I'm not sure how such reliance would have to work to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually 
>>>>>>>>>>>> cause issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We did consider more "aggressive" breakage of PERSISTENT, for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> example by making it an alias for TEMPORARY when passed to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `webkitRequestFileSystem`. But as you point out, that would then 
>>>>>>>>>>>> require 
>>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of migration story, and would increase the risk of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> breakage of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise well-intentioned websites, without having significant 
>>>>>>>>>>>> extra 
>>>>>>>>>>>> benefits. I.e. merely changing how PERSISTENT is treated for quota 
>>>>>>>>>>>> purposes 
>>>>>>>>>>>> gets us all the same benefits for reducing code complexity and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> eliminating 
>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing UI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I note that third-party usage of PERSISTENT is quite low, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hovering around 0.0003% (
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/3879).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if there's an opportunity to simply break it in those 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> contexts? 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you done any analysis on that subset of pages?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good question, I don't think we've looked into that yet. While 
>>>>>>>>>>>> good for the web (in that we'd be getting rid of some portion of a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> chrome-only API) doing so wouldn't help us much with 
>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation 
>>>>>>>>>>>> complexity etc, so the benefits are fairly minimal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also also, I'm also somewhat dismayed to note that TEMPORARY 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage is at 10% of page views (
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2996).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's high! Can I safely assume that that's overwhelmingly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> incognito 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> detection as well? If so, is there a path to removal?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A large part of that probably is incognito detection, yes. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> However there are a number of big websites/partners that are still 
>>>>>>>>>>>> relying 
>>>>>>>>>>>> on webkitRequestFileSystem as well. Long term we definitely would 
>>>>>>>>>>>> like to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecate  and remove the entire `webkitRequestFileSystem` API 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> various legacy quota APIs also involved in this intent), but 
>>>>>>>>>>>> realistically 
>>>>>>>>>>>> this is not something we expect to be able to make much headway on 
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> near future. On the deprecating storage APIs front we're first 
>>>>>>>>>>>> focussing on 
>>>>>>>>>>>> WebSQL, as we feel removing that has a much bigger impact on 
>>>>>>>>>>>> security and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainability of the web. Getting rid of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `webkitRequestFileSystem` will 
>>>>>>>>>>>> be nice to get to a more cross-browser interoperable web, but the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> vast 
>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of the implementation is shared with other features, so 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> additional maintenance burden cause by keeping it around a bit 
>>>>>>>>>>>> longer is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> fairly minimal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From a process perspective, I'm comfortable both with this not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> requiring signals from other vendors (as they've clearly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed their 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion that the spec is dead 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2014AprJun/0010.html>),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the TAG's input is likewise unnecessary IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 11:01 PM Chris Fredrickson <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cfre...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Contact emails*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cfre...@chromium.org, m...@chromium.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Explainer*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Cm2Hv_-RMqQPqruGL2rUyiTRgqMyHMJbNyNvhLH6KWU/edit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Specification*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Summary*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We plan to deprecate and remove support of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `window.PERSISTENT` quota type in `webkitRequestFileSystem`. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `webkitRequestFileSystem` will still accept a `type` parameter 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and use of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the PERSISTENT and TEMPORARY types will create filesystems with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roots, but the PERSISTENT type will no longer grant access to a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filesystem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We will also modify `navigator.webkitPersistentStorage` to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an alias for `navigator.webkitTemporaryStorage`. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, we will also begin ignoring the `storageType` 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parameter (either `window.PERSISTENT` or `window.TEMPORARY`) in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> methods of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the `webkitStorageInfo` API (which is deprecated). 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Blink component*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink>Storage 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EStorage>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Motivation*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Support for the PERSISTENT quota type contributes some amount 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of complexity to the quota system, but `webkitRequestFileSystem` 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only consumer, with relatively low usage. Additionally, support 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistent quota will hinder work on storage partitioning, so it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful to simplify the quota system prior to partitioning 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> storage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Initial public proposal*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *TAG review*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *TAG review status*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not applicable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Risks*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because we plan to just change the “lifetime” of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persistent filesystem (rather than, e.g., merging it with the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filesystem), risks are fairly minimal. Usage of the PERSISTENT 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `webkitRequestFileSystem` is low, about 0.4% of pageloads 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/2997>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding making `navigator.webkitPersistentStorage` an alias 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for `navigator.webkitTemporaryStorage`, we believe this presents 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the least 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk, since this way the quota for the `window.PERSISTENT` 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filesystem will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still be accurately reported to sites that query it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding ignoring `storageType`: since persistent quota will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no longer exist, our choices are to ignore the storage type 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throw an exception if kPersistent is used. The former presents 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the least 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk of breakage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Interoperability and Compatibility*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None. No other browser supports the APIs affected here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: No signal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: No signal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: No signals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>?*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Flag name*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> None
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5176235376246784
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAKXHy%3Dd_r83Lf4NDokigV%2BKCOs98b_EeJ9NcWASj1eVOD_4Mqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BOSsVa1KT2sc4eSJNvG9hc0LSHNc1YNJhgi7DwnqSHjZ7tvCQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfVjqW2hFpzhTzwj05P7AmvOKN%3DPFJq3pz5DwDSoqjOucw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>>>>
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