Supporting consistent IDs for supported pens sounds great. Sahir & Ben: wondering why a new deviceId field seems more logical now against the original proposal of repurposing the pointerId field? Is it because of the compat concern you raised in w3c/pointerevents/issues/353 <https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/353#issuecomment-1346776842>?
On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 5:16 PM Rick Byers <rby...@chromium.org> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 1:17 PM Sahir Vellani <sahir.vell...@microsoft.com> > wrote: > >> Thank you for all the feedback! >> >> >> >> Rick, yes that’s correct. The ID will be refreshed on reload and iframes >> will have a different ID to their parent/each other. Also, we can >> definitely explore integration with web driver and adding a WPT test. >> > > Perfect. I'm not a privacy reviewer, but that makes a lot of sense to me. > > Ben, any thoughts on the PEWG path Rick mentions below? >> > > Sounds <https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/353> like the current > editor / WG chair prefers a WICG spec until L3 gets finalized anyway. But > knowing it's just a process thing and can trivially be moved into the PE > spec once L3 reaches REC seems good enough to me. > > Sahir >> >> >> >> *From:* Rick Byers <rby...@chromium.org> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 6, 2022 12:34 PM >> *To:* Sahir Vellani <sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>; Mustaq Ahmed < >> mus...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org> >> *Cc:* blink-dev@chromium.org; Ben Mathwig <benjamin.math...@microsoft.com >> > >> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype: >> PointerEvent.deviceId for Mult-Pen Inking >> >> >> >> You don't often get email from rby...@chromium.org. Learn why this is >> important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> >> >> Cool, looks like a nice little addition to me. +Mustaq Ahmed >> <mus...@chromium.org> and +Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org> from the >> Chrome interactions team who are likely code reviewers. >> >> >> >> The only real potential debate I see is around the details of the privacy >> protections. If I understand correctly "per document instance" means that >> the IDs will even be different across iframes in the same tab, and also >> when a page is reloaded. Is that right? If so, I can't see how it would be >> an issue. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 12:49 PM 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev < >> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: >> >> Contact emails >> >> bemat...@microsoft.com, sahir.vell...@microsoft.com >> >> Explainer >> >> >> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftEdge%2FMSEdgeExplainers%2Fblob%2Fmain%2FPointerEventDeviceId%2Fexplainer.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G%2Be9w01lXS3f5pbAJTk57Q%2BAuMz4aDPZUwIQKjwQbOc%3D&reserved=0> >> >> Specification >> >> >> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftEdge%2FMSEdgeExplainers%2Fblob%2Fmain%2FPointerEventDeviceId%2Fexplainer.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G%2Be9w01lXS3f5pbAJTk57Q%2BAuMz4aDPZUwIQKjwQbOc%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> >> FWIW with my former PointerEvents spec editor hat on, I pinged this issue >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fpointerevents%2Fissues%2F353&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=shwJW5sh9Z7noHd%2BxTIscswn0dmrQ8ovNHvBohtVM3M%3D&reserved=0> >> on the PointerEvents spec. We've had 'extensions' to the PointerEvents spec >> in the past, so the PEWG may be amenable to something simple and pragmatic >> that'll naturally make it into the next official PE spec rather than >> starting with WICG. But with my Blink API owner hat on, either path is fine. >> >> >> >> Summary >> >> As devices with advanced pen input capabilities are becoming increasingly >> prevalent, it is important that the web platform continues to evolve to >> fully support these advanced features in order to unlock rich experiences >> for both end users and developers. One such advancement is the ability for >> a device's digitizer to recognize more than one pen device interacting with >> it simultaneously. This feature is an extension to the PointerEvent >> interface to include a new attribute, deviceId, that represents a >> session-persistent, document isolated, unique identifier that a developer >> can reliably use to identify individual pens interacting with the page. >> >> >> >> Blink component >> >> Blink>Input >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbugs.chromium.org%2Fp%2Fchromium%2Fissues%2Flist%3Fq%3Dcomponent%3ABlink%253EInput&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KOnl6tr0L%2BBsJDBmleREcYjsWL5KJGQRf8yBWAWEtz0%3D&reserved=0> >> >> Motivation >> >> Currently, developers have no way to distinguish between two individual >> pens on an ink-enabled digitizer. The existing PointerEvent.id attribute is >> implemented in different ways and does not always persist for each ink >> stroke or interaction with the screen. Developers can use this change to >> have a secure and reliable way to identify individual pen (pointers) >> interacting with the screen in order to set specific colors or pen shapes >> for each device interacting with the digitizer. >> >> >> >> Initial public proposal >> >> >> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftEdge%2FMSEdgeExplainers%2Fblob%2Fmain%2FPointerEventDeviceId%2Fexplainer.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G%2Be9w01lXS3f5pbAJTk57Q%2BAuMz4aDPZUwIQKjwQbOc%3D&reserved=0> >> >> TAG review >> >> >> >> TAG review status >> >> Pending >> >> Risks >> >> Fingerprinting risks, which will be mitigated by randomizing the ID each >> renderer session. >> >> Interoperability and Compatibility >> >> >> >> *Gecko*: Request for Position: Extending the PointerEvent with Unique >> DeviceId Attribute · Issue #715 · mozilla/standards-positions · GitHub >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmozilla%2Fstandards-positions%2Fissues%2F715&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tSQAhmHBFJzejfxrGlZvMxC13LNtvhlYBQCp0%2FGffC0%3D&reserved=0> >> >> *WebKit*: Request for Position: Extending the PointerEvent with Unique >> DeviceId Attribute · Issue #102 · WebKit/standards-positions · GitHub >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWebKit%2Fstandards-positions%2Fissues%2F102&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FizM7QU4r4xhCg2hmy8KCnKLB92KSqBh2hdMSGxEHb4%3D&reserved=0> >> >> *Web developers*: No signals >> >> *Other signals*: >> >> WebView application risks >> >> *Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?* >> >> None >> >> Debuggability >> >> deviceId will be available via DevTools for front-end debugging. >> >> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromium.googlesource.com%2Fchromium%2Fsrc%2F%2B%2Fmain%2Fdocs%2Ftesting%2Fweb_platform_tests.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7WmFy2DcTeNmg0ZsyOAnYDgDwXH0lQh0uxwApWGtPX8%3D&reserved=0> >> ? >> >> No >> >> >> >> We've got automation plumbing for the rest of PointerEvents I believe. >> Any reason not to add plumbing through WebDriver for this too and an >> automated WPT test? I suppose the value is pretty low, but IMHO would be >> nice if it's not too much more expensive than the alternative chromium-only >> tests. >> >> >> >> Flag name >> >> PointerEventDeviceId >> >> Requires code in //chrome? >> >> False >> >> Estimated milestones >> >> No milestones specified >> >> >> >> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >> >> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5114132234240000 >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2Ffeature%2F5114132234240000&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tDayY%2FyoZL4k%2Bq3WUeeKhAAHUM9AOBrEatMlXXpXKHE%3D&reserved=0> >> >> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nPWfOUyhwzxBKl%2FUOasrtn%2B3PZSJBd0x%2F2QOLe0b1W8%3D&reserved=0> >> . >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/SA0PR00MB1033E5DE0BDE42239E647E9AFB189%40SA0PR00MB1033.namprd00.prod.outlook.com >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fa%2Fchromium.org%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fblink-dev%2FSA0PR00MB1033E5DE0BDE42239E647E9AFB189%2540SA0PR00MB1033.namprd00.prod.outlook.com%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dfooter&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556724060722%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O5hLFpJJNCBM9H1VaonKLfZ0P%2FSAjFix22LEZ%2BnoImk%3D&reserved=0> >> . >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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