--- *Sahir & Ben: wondering why a new deviceId field seems more logical now against the original proposal of repurposing the pointerId field? Is it because of the compat concern you raised in w3c/pointerevents/issues/353 <https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/353#issuecomment-1346776842>?* ---
The primary reason is the deterministic nature of deviceId compared to pointerId. The scenario would be: (a) If the device supports getting a unique hardware identifier, we randomly generate an integer and persist that integer for the document lifespan. (b) If the device does not support getting a unique hardware identifier, does pointerId fall back to its original behavior? In the spec, we decided between null, undefined, and integer as the deterministic values of deviceId. We *could* use pointerId instead, but we'd have to align on the solution for (b) On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 8:08:11 AM UTC-8 Mustaq Ahmed wrote: > Supporting consistent IDs for supported pens sounds great. > > Sahir & Ben: wondering why a new deviceId field seems more logical now > against the original proposal of repurposing the pointerId field? Is it > because of the compat concern you raised in w3c/pointerevents/issues/353 > <https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/353#issuecomment-1346776842>? > > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 5:16 PM Rick Byers <rby...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 1:17 PM Sahir Vellani <sahir....@microsoft.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you for all the feedback! >>> >>> >>> >>> Rick, yes that’s correct. The ID will be refreshed on reload and iframes >>> will have a different ID to their parent/each other. Also, we can >>> definitely explore integration with web driver and adding a WPT test. >>> >> >> Perfect. I'm not a privacy reviewer, but that makes a lot of sense to me. >> >> Ben, any thoughts on the PEWG path Rick mentions below? >>> >> >> Sounds <https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/353> like the >> current editor / WG chair prefers a WICG spec until L3 gets finalized >> anyway. But knowing it's just a process thing and can trivially be moved >> into the PE spec once L3 reaches REC seems good enough to me. >> >> Sahir >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rick Byers <rby...@chromium.org> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 6, 2022 12:34 PM >>> *To:* Sahir Vellani <sahir....@microsoft.com>; Mustaq Ahmed < >>> mus...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack <fla...@chromium.org> >>> *Cc:* blin...@chromium.org; Ben Mathwig <benjamin...@microsoft.com> >>> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype: >>> PointerEvent.deviceId for Mult-Pen Inking >>> >>> >>> >>> You don't often get email from rby...@chromium.org. Learn why this is >>> important <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification> >>> >>> Cool, looks like a nice little addition to me. +Mustaq Ahmed and +Robert >>> Flack from the Chrome interactions team who are likely code reviewers. >>> >>> >>> >>> The only real potential debate I see is around the details of the >>> privacy protections. If I understand correctly "per document instance" >>> means that the IDs will even be different across iframes in the same tab, >>> and also when a page is reloaded. Is that right? If so, I can't see how it >>> would be an issue. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 12:49 PM 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev < >>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>> >>> Contact emails >>> >>> bema...@microsoft.com, sahir....@microsoft.com >>> >>> Explainer >>> >>> >>> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >>> >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftEdge%2FMSEdgeExplainers%2Fblob%2Fmain%2FPointerEventDeviceId%2Fexplainer.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G%2Be9w01lXS3f5pbAJTk57Q%2BAuMz4aDPZUwIQKjwQbOc%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> Specification >>> >>> >>> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >>> >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftEdge%2FMSEdgeExplainers%2Fblob%2Fmain%2FPointerEventDeviceId%2Fexplainer.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G%2Be9w01lXS3f5pbAJTk57Q%2BAuMz4aDPZUwIQKjwQbOc%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> >>> >>> FWIW with my former PointerEvents spec editor hat on, I pinged this >>> issue >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fpointerevents%2Fissues%2F353&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=shwJW5sh9Z7noHd%2BxTIscswn0dmrQ8ovNHvBohtVM3M%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> on the PointerEvents spec. We've had 'extensions' to the PointerEvents spec >>> in the past, so the PEWG may be amenable to something simple and pragmatic >>> that'll naturally make it into the next official PE spec rather than >>> starting with WICG. But with my Blink API owner hat on, either path is fine. >>> >>> >>> >>> Summary >>> >>> As devices with advanced pen input capabilities are becoming >>> increasingly prevalent, it is important that the web platform continues to >>> evolve to fully support these advanced features in order to unlock rich >>> experiences for both end users and developers. One such advancement is the >>> ability for a device's digitizer to recognize more than one pen device >>> interacting with it simultaneously. This feature is an extension to the >>> PointerEvent interface to include a new attribute, deviceId, that >>> represents a session-persistent, document isolated, unique identifier that >>> a developer can reliably use to identify individual pens interacting with >>> the page. >>> >>> >>> >>> Blink component >>> >>> Blink>Input >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbugs.chromium.org%2Fp%2Fchromium%2Fissues%2Flist%3Fq%3Dcomponent%3ABlink%253EInput&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KOnl6tr0L%2BBsJDBmleREcYjsWL5KJGQRf8yBWAWEtz0%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> Motivation >>> >>> Currently, developers have no way to distinguish between two individual >>> pens on an ink-enabled digitizer. The existing PointerEvent.id attribute is >>> implemented in different ways and does not always persist for each ink >>> stroke or interaction with the screen. Developers can use this change to >>> have a secure and reliable way to identify individual pen (pointers) >>> interacting with the screen in order to set specific colors or pen shapes >>> for each device interacting with the digitizer. >>> >>> >>> >>> Initial public proposal >>> >>> >>> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >>> >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMicrosoftEdge%2FMSEdgeExplainers%2Fblob%2Fmain%2FPointerEventDeviceId%2Fexplainer.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G%2Be9w01lXS3f5pbAJTk57Q%2BAuMz4aDPZUwIQKjwQbOc%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> TAG review >>> >>> >>> >>> TAG review status >>> >>> Pending >>> >>> Risks >>> >>> Fingerprinting risks, which will be mitigated by randomizing the ID each >>> renderer session. >>> >>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>> >>> >>> >>> *Gecko*: Request for Position: Extending the PointerEvent with Unique >>> DeviceId Attribute · Issue #715 · mozilla/standards-positions · GitHub >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fmozilla%2Fstandards-positions%2Fissues%2F715&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tSQAhmHBFJzejfxrGlZvMxC13LNtvhlYBQCp0%2FGffC0%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> *WebKit*: Request for Position: Extending the PointerEvent with Unique >>> DeviceId Attribute · Issue #102 · WebKit/standards-positions · GitHub >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FWebKit%2Fstandards-positions%2Fissues%2F102&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FizM7QU4r4xhCg2hmy8KCnKLB92KSqBh2hdMSGxEHb4%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> *Web developers*: No signals >>> >>> *Other signals*: >>> >>> WebView application risks >>> >>> *Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?* >>> >>> None >>> >>> Debuggability >>> >>> deviceId will be available via DevTools for front-end debugging. >>> >>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromium.googlesource.com%2Fchromium%2Fsrc%2F%2B%2Fmain%2Fdocs%2Ftesting%2Fweb_platform_tests.md&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7WmFy2DcTeNmg0ZsyOAnYDgDwXH0lQh0uxwApWGtPX8%3D&reserved=0> >>> ? >>> >>> No >>> >>> >>> >>> We've got automation plumbing for the rest of PointerEvents I believe. >>> Any reason not to add plumbing through WebDriver for this too and an >>> automated WPT test? I suppose the value is pretty low, but IMHO would be >>> nice if it's not too much more expensive than the alternative chromium-only >>> tests. >>> >>> >>> >>> Flag name >>> >>> PointerEventDeviceId >>> >>> Requires code in //chrome? >>> >>> False >>> >>> Estimated milestones >>> >>> No milestones specified >>> >>> >>> >>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>> >>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5114132234240000 >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2Ffeature%2F5114132234240000&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tDayY%2FyoZL4k%2Bq3WUeeKhAAHUM9AOBrEatMlXXpXKHE%3D&reserved=0> >>> >>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556723904504%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nPWfOUyhwzxBKl%2FUOasrtn%2B3PZSJBd0x%2F2QOLe0b1W8%3D&reserved=0> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/SA0PR00MB1033E5DE0BDE42239E647E9AFB189%40SA0PR00MB1033.namprd00.prod.outlook.com >>> >>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fa%2Fchromium.org%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fblink-dev%2FSA0PR00MB1033E5DE0BDE42239E647E9AFB189%2540SA0PR00MB1033.namprd00.prod.outlook.com%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dfooter&data=05%7C01%7CSahir.Vellani%40microsoft.com%7C46111826fa2b47ee46a508dad7c94550%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C638059556724060722%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O5hLFpJJNCBM9H1VaonKLfZ0P%2FSAjFix22LEZ%2BnoImk%3D&reserved=0> >>> . >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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