Is there anything more I can do to help move this conversation forward? I would try to gather a consensus that authors would use it but I don't have a following large enough to gather anything valuable.
On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 17:27:27 UTC+1 Luke wrote: > > ...effectively empty, with an inline issue saying ~"TODO: figure out if > these are OK". > > I've added a comment > <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3488#issuecomment-1652125743> > to an existing CSS spec issue regarding that issue section. > > > Based on > https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145#issuecomment-1478736469, > > it doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite from Apple or Mozilla. > > There's mixed signals from Mozilla and especially Apple imo. > > While Apple have added a general concerns label for all `prefers-*` media > queries, they've also implemented at least 3 of them along with being the > only UA to currently expose `inverted-colors` information. They've also > made 1 of the two current issues regarding potential new preference media > queries (namely prefers-reduced-strobing > <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8651>) > > Mozilla likewise don't seem overly keen on prefers-reduced-transparency (a > third party implemented it recently but so far it remains disabled by > default) but have also exposed the 3 existing prefers media queries along > with also implementing `forced-colors` (Apple has too but it always > evaluates to false so isn't relavant). They also started a PR > <https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/410> to add a > supportive position for the preference media queries given their > accessibility benefits. > > > My own take is that if it can benefit some users, and sites will use it, > the incremental entropy available here is probably acceptable. > > I would agree if there's an improved accessibility experience it's worth > the privacy tradeoff imo. As for how useful users and site authors would > find it I'm not sure how best to go about finding that out. There's various > blog posts mentioning it, and obviously there must be some benefit to > exposing the settings else Microsoft and Apple wouldn't have explicit > settings for it. Potentially some a11y specialists could chime in on this > front? > > On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 16:28:42 UTC+1 mike...@chromium.org wrote: > >> As to the fingerprintability, we should think about the trade-offs we're >> making between accessibility and adding more active surfaces that give away >> some bits of entropy. I'd love to hear more about requests from the a11y or >> developer community to actually have this MQ available to them. My own take >> is that if it can benefit some users, and sites will use it, the >> incremental entropy available here is probably acceptable. >> >> I note that https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#mq-prefers-security >> is effectively empty, with an inline issue saying ~"TODO: figure out if >> these are OK". That doesn't seem super great. Do we know if there is >> consensus among editors on the utility vs privacy trade offs of these MQs? >> (Maybe Tab can chime in on this topic...). >> >> Based on >> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145#issuecomment-1478736469, >> >> it doesn't seem like there's a lot of appetite from Apple or Mozilla. >> On 7/24/23 4:13 AM, Yoav Weiss wrote: >> >> I'd love to hear +Mike Taylor 's thought about this from an extra >> fingerprinting bit perspective. Also, how would users signal their >> preference? >> >> On Fri, Jul 21, 2023, 23:21 Luke <lukewa...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Contact emails lukewa...@gmail.com, lu...@warlow.dev >>> >>> Explainer None >>> >>> Specification >>> https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#prefers-reduced-transparency >>> >>> Summary >>> >>> Adds the `prefers-reduced-transparency` feature, which lets authors >>> adapt web content to user-selected preference for reduced transparency in >>> the OS, such as the 'Reduce transparency' setting on macOS. Valid options >>> are 'reduce' or 'no-preference'. >>> >>> >>> Blink component Blink>CSS >>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>> >>> Search tags css <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:css>, >>> prefers-reduced-transparency >>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:prefers-reduced-transparency> >>> >>> TAG review None >>> >>> TAG review status Not applicable >>> >>> Risks >>> >>> >>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>> >>> *Gecko*: No signal ( >>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/851) There is a >>> separate umbrella issue for some the preference media queries (contrast, >>> motion, color-scheme). They have a stale PR to add an overall positive >>> position for those preference media queries. They also have an >>> implementation behind a flag. It's not been enabled yet due to >>> fingerprinting concerns. >>> >>> *WebKit*: No signal ( >>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/145) I have >>> submitted an implementation of this feature as a PR to WebKit: >>> https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/pull/11560 >>> >>> *Web developers*: Positive ( >>> https://blog.logrocket.com/new-media-queries-you-need-to-know) >>> >>> *Other signals*: >>> >>> Security >>> >>> This feature can be used for fingerprinting as it exposes a user >>> preference. >>> >>> >>> WebView application risks >>> >>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>> >>> >>> Debuggability >>> >>> This can be emulated in the Dev Tools rendering tab like other >>> preference media queries. >>> >>> >>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, >>> Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? Yes >>> >>> The feature will be supported on all platforms, but whether the user >>> will be able to signal a reduced transparency preference may depend on the >>> OS. >>> >>> >>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>> ? Yes >>> >>> Flag name on chrome://flags #enable-experimental-web-platform-features >>> >>> Finch feature name PrefersReducedTransparency >>> >>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>> >>> Tracking bug >>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1424879 >>> >>> Sample links >>> >>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/prefers-reduced-transparency#examples >>> >>> Estimated milestones >>> Shipping on desktop 117 >>> DevTrial on desktop 117 >>> Shipping on Android 117 >>> DevTrial on Android 117 >>> >>> Anticipated spec changes >>> >>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat or >>> interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github issues >>> in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may >>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure of >>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>> >>> >>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5191066147356672 >>> >>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to prototype: >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6D62B5CD-B44D-4CB1-B85A-F73DFFD6CE85%40gmail.com >>> >>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/27CA7B34-5C7E-44DE-A75D-41E6034DD833%40gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/27CA7B34-5C7E-44DE-A75D-41E6034DD833%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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