On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 11:00 AM Vladimir Levin <vmp...@chromium.org> wrote:
> I looked into the UKM data about three months ago, before I started the >> experiment to disable all mutation events on Canary/Dev/Beta. I looked at >> the top ~30 UKM hits and dug into the site's code to see what the usage >> was. Many (~40% or so?) of the top sites usage was due to quilljs >> <https://github.com/quilljs/quill/issues/3806> which has since updated >> their code to not rely on mutation events. Another maybe 10% was due to a >> Sharepoint >> 2016 mquery.js utility >> <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/sharepoint/sharepoint-2016-server-mquery-js-event-deprecation/m-p/3947764>, >> for which several folks have requested support from MS, but it's a bit >> unclear what the plan is. The rest of the sites appeared to have bespoke >> code looking at mutation events. >> > > Is Sharepoint 10% of the 1% usage? According to the thread you linked > <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/sharepoint/sharepoint-2016-server-mquery-js-event-deprecation/m-p/4103969/highlight/true#M80109> > they > will fix it in a Sept 2024 release but seem like they won't backport the > fix to previous versions. That seems a bit risky, but also I'm not sure > what the breakage looks like and as you say, things seem to work. > I don't have a great way to break down how much of the 1% is represented by the Sharepoint library, because it just shows up as a JS dependency on affected sites. And yes that's what the public thread there says, though I'm not sure how authoritative that is. I've reached out privately to MS to see if there's more info I can glean. Just to confirm, I can't "see" any breakage on those sites. The most "visible" thing, which is what gets folks to report issues like the Sharepoint one, is the console warning that mutation events are being used and might break. Those had the intended effect in all of these cases, which is a good thing. > And finally, of course, assuming I'm approved to disable in M127, I'll be >> very mindful of breakage and will flip the events back on immediately in >> the case that there is more breakage than I'm expecting. >> > > Is the plan to do a finch rollout, something like 1% stable increasing > week by week? Or were you just thinking of enabling it in 127 without finch? > So I'm definitely planning to launch this via Finch, so I can be guaranteed that un-launching it that way will "work" for all platforms. But I could go either way on the question of whether to ramp up slowly or go directly to 100% with the 127 release. I was leaning toward 100% of 127 on stable release day, because I think that'll be the least confusing for people experiencing issues. I.e. they relaunch their browser into 127 and something breaks - they now understand what caused it. When the breakage starts on some random day, and isn't repeatable across computers, they have a harder time knowing they should report a bug. And I want to maximize the chance that issues get reported quickly. Thanks, Mason > > >> >> Let me know if anything else would help make the case that we should go >> forward with this. >> >> Thanks, >> Mason >> >> >> >> >>> Chrome has shipped an experiment since M124 that disables all Mutation >>>>> Events for 99% of users of Canary, Dev, and Beta versions of Chrome. Very >>>>> few bugs have been filed in the intervening months, and all that were >>>>> filed >>>>> have been resolved quickly via the site owner making changes to not rely >>>>> on >>>>> the deprecated events. >>>>> >>>> This gives me significant confidence that removing the events will not >>>>> be as big of a deal as the use counters would suggest. Still, due to the >>>>> still-high numbers, extreme care will be taken in the removal process. I >>>>> plan to disable the events via Finch only, so that if issues are >>>>> encountered, Finch will be a safe way to re-enable the events. >>>>> Additionally, there are the deprecation trial and enterprise policies to >>>>> offer an easy relief valve for affected sites. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Gecko*: Positive ( >>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/807) "very >>>>> strong positive position" >>>>> >>>>> *WebKit*: No signal ( >>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/192) >>>>> >>>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>>> >>>>> *Other signals*: >>>>> >>>>> Activation >>>>> >>>>> This npm package attempts to polyfill Mutation Events using Mutation >>>>> Observer: https://www.npmjs.com/package/mutation-events. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> WebView application risks >>>>> >>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>>>> >>>>> None >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Debuggability >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>> Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)?Yes >>>>> >>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>> ?No >>>>> >>>>> Flag name on chrome://flagsmutation-events >>>>> >>>>> Finch feature nameMutationEvents >>>>> >>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>> >>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1446498 >>>>> >>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>> Shipping on desktop 127 >>>>> Origin trial desktop first 124 >>>>> Origin trial desktop last 134 >>>>> Shipping on Android 127 >>>>> OriginTrial Android last 134 >>>>> OriginTrial Android first 124 >>>>> Shipping on WebView 127 >>>>> OriginTrial webView last 134 >>>>> OriginTrial webView first 124 >>>>> >>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>> >>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat or >>>>> interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github issues >>>>> in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may >>>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure >>>>> of >>>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>> None >>>>> >>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5083947249172480?gate=5111010140094464 >>>>> >>>>> Links to previous Intent discussionsIntent to Deprecate: >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/qDsKRU-cQ_4/m/isA1mZ_aAAAJ >>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/z-VIfSOco4k/m/KDz9c_goAAAJ >>>>> >>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM%3DNeDjonGju3YX1WkXtEJrMGLo4bH9AqtwV0QoqvopdGNioAg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM%3DNeDjonGju3YX1WkXtEJrMGLo4bH9AqtwV0QoqvopdGNioAg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOmohSJzmUKZo5K0TwixDRx0J5JfcNzugO3C%2BPVac-sB-3M-0g%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOmohSJzmUKZo5K0TwixDRx0J5JfcNzugO3C%2BPVac-sB-3M-0g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM%3DNeDgfmwE9%3DKjAuKSZKEw_3CQ9tWenNa0yfLo8QXG6EyZ5uw%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM%3DNeDgfmwE9%3DKjAuKSZKEw_3CQ9tWenNa0yfLo8QXG6EyZ5uw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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