On Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:17:12 PM Joshua Immanuel wrote: >> Why people haven't moved from Zope 2. Even worse, they continue their >> development towards Zope 4. >> First of all this is an excellent question. Allow me to answer for myself.
I used to be a very aggressive Zope 2 and even Plone developer, but the innards of Zope 2 are too messy, and worse yet in Plone, there is just too much junk in there. It is clear a cleaner stack is needed. So BlueBream looks interesting. So why am I still not using BlueBream, still running Zope 2 servers. Well for several reasons. TTW on Zope 2 is just so easy. I used it this week to start a new project. Client side stuff. A few clicks and I was done. No such easy path on Bluebream. That is why I maintain that the TTW development tools are so needed on BlueBream. To make it easy for people to start using the platform. Bluebream is hard. I have made two major passes at it so far, and never got it to do what I wanted to do. It is probably the most sophisticated application development environment I know of. We no longer develop applications using just a compiler and a text editor. We sit on top of huge libraries of object ware. BlueBream is such a huge library. You have to be a really really smart software developer to understand why you need the BlueBream architecture. The people who are using it, are very smart people, and they understand why they need all that stuff. I have so much respect for the people who wrote it. And they figured this all out 10 years ago. The next reason I have not made more progress in this direction is that historically I have gotten a lot of flack for pushing Zope 3 TTW. Now the flack is way down. Indeed the world is changed now. BlueBream is quite dead except for the TTW conversations, and so the time is ripe to make this happen. Who can object to our reinvigorating BlueBream with TTW technologies? It was dead anyhow. Clearly a demo platform for ZTK is needed! So why did I listen to the people who discouraged me? Well I am sensitive. And I was missing a key concept. Sure BlueBream is brilliant, but it is too complex for simple projects. Much like Pyramid does not publish the Zope Component Architecture, so does BlueBream need a simpler starter model. What I call TTW development. Or any simpler starter computational model would bring in large numbers of users. Then the last few years I have been doing iPhone development. I am a bit surprised that the huge mass of Plone developers are not hanging out on this email list asking for a cleaner rewrite of Plone on top of BlueBream. Instead they are stripping down Zope 2, getting rid of all the stuff I like! I cannot stay with Zope 2, I have no choice but to do something with BlueBream. On the other hand, I know that once we have a good TTW development environment, many of them will jump over here very fast. Let me add one more point. The nature of Open Source Software is that people do things mostly for their own sake. They are not paid to do it for others. And so while a number of people are using the ZTK themselves, they are less motivated to make it trivial for others. In contrast Apple is great at making the development tools easier for Newbies. In XCode there are a number of template projects you can start from. BlueBream really needs to be a number of starter Templates. The existing release is for hard core ZTK developers. That is a niche market. We need a BlueBream TTW development template. We need a BlueBream wiki template. We need a BlueBream Content Management template. We need a Bluebream Yahoo Groups template. We need a BlueBream Social Networking template. We need a BlueBream matchmaking template. We need a BlueBream Google Maps Template. You can probably think of a few more starter templates for BlueBream. Since we have literally none of those templates, even the developer one is dated. we have a small market share. Indeed the only recent one on the mailing list is the ZTFY.org template, and there the docs and evaluations are lacking. Anyhow I am confident that BlueBream will soon be resurrected as a TTW platform! I really do not see any other choice for a web application server. Indeed the traffic on this mailing list on this topic has picked up very nicely recently. That is a clear indication of consumer interest. Regards Christopher Lozinski _______________________________________________ bluebream mailing list [email protected] https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/bluebream
