Hi, Just for information, there is a European form of cooperative, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societas_cooperativa_Europaea
Cheers Sophie Le 25/08/2020 à 22:02, Telesto a écrit : > Hi, > > Thanks for the quite response and acknowledging of the issues with the > Canadian route. Next step is to list advantages/disadvantages for a > number of country's; from my perspective European country's. There are > quite some country's allowing a Genossenschaft kind of structure or even > a Verein (DE) (Club/association). Some examples for the Netherlands are > ANWB (Verein with members (DE)) combined with commercial BV (GmbH (DE)). > They Rabobank has a cooperation structure, but nowadays more a light > (more symbolic) version). ForFarmers (a feed company). Originally > established by group of farmers as a kind of purchasing organization for > cattle feed in a Cooperative structure. Grown to large company, and made > the move to the stock market. Partly because of farmers not being able > to sell there shares (or bonds or whatever they created for that) in the > cooperation easily and fuzz about the market value (as there was no > exact figure; and account who 'calculated' a price). Not sure if they > farmers are happy now, with a new group of interests (investors) who > like to see returns on investment. Not only a good price/ quality cattle > feed. However there are remains, see: > https://www.forfarmersgroup.eu/en/bestanden/ForFarmers_Group/PDF/Overig/30160-1/Relationship_Agreement_between_ForFarmers_NV_and_Cooperatie_FromFarmers_UA_EN.pdf > > > Anyhow, I personally would opt/ start with country's in the region where > the main eco-system partners are situated. So United Kingdom or Germany. > As this easiest way. I only opt for a different country if there is some > substantial (legal/fiscal/practical) benefit. Outweighing all the > trouble (and additional costs). However, they Brexit doesn't make things > easier. As it makes things bit unpredictable, IMHO. So next best would > maybe be Ireland. They advantage base in Ireland/ United Kingdom would > be the language. Not a big fan of translations of official documents > (not clue about European SE). However, I personally prefer civil law > above common law, as it's rather easy to look up the law (if you're able > to read the language in question). If you want geographical in the > middle of they big eco-system partners you end up in the Netherlands. > Germany rather procedural so maybe slower? Or simply a stigma. One of > the advantages the Netherlands is claimed to be the numerous tax rules. > However probably every country is promoting some advantage. And next > question is of course if those advantages being actually relevant (or > kind of gimmick). Based on my (heavily biased, unfounded) gut feeling I > end up with Germany, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Luxembourg, Austria, > Belgium, Denmark (or maybe Poland or Czech Republic). [Read you're own > preferred order] > > The Board members could share their experiences with ups/downs of > operating in they different country's. United Kingdom, Germany, > Netherlands are all represented on the board. Say the costs of running a > business (Laws/taxes/administration requirements; local costs of > accountants/ lawyers/ permits). Germany still cheaper in quite some > area's compared to the Netherlands (at least on goods/grocery's/homes). > Britain in general rather expensive, based on my experiences. I would > assume this is valid for the whole living standard. > > I would consider to euro to be slightly more stable compared to to say > Britain (especially after Brexit and Covid-19). However there might be a > repeat of they EU-crisis of 2008 regarding to South Europe (as they > depend on tourism and already having deficits). So maybe is Brexit only > the start of an exodus. So the advantages of Europe as a whole might > dwindle. So choice should ideally be acceptable even in worst case > scenario's. > > Simply some pointers. Not sure if Kevin has some insights or experiences. > > Regards, > Telesto > > > > > Op 25-8-2020 om 17:54 schreef Kev M: > >> Hi, >> Regarding setting up in Canada: >> Reading through this article will tell you everything you need to know >> regarding entities, tax, and liability implications: >> https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/9-564-0499?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true >> >> I think Telesto raises some strong points against setting up in >> Canada; The ones that resonated with me were related to the geographic >> separation of board directors and the ability and familiarity with >> Canadian law. Unless you have a Canadian board member or TDF or TDC >> employee domiciled in Canada, it will be difficult to go through >> bureaucratic processes in the country. There are also nuances to >> Canadian law and culture that may seem a bit confusing or backwards >> compared to say, the Netherlands or another European country. >> Consider this example; in the Netherlands, a Digital ID system is in >> place that allows for board members to sign documents electronically >> from anywhere in the world, which significantly speeds up the process >> of making decisions and getting government approval on forms, changes, >> etc. In Canada, we are still debating how a national Digital ID system >> will be implemented (it's at least 2-3 years out). Currently in many >> provinces they still require you to fax or mail-in documentation. I >> tried to email a scanned PDF once and my provincial business registrar >> refused to accept it. The TDF would have to weigh bureaucratic >> inefficiencies and the time to resolve them with the overall tax >> savings (which, I do not know what the tax comparison between Canada >> and an EU tax-haven like Luxembourg would be.) >> Geopolitically I also see LibreOffice as being a European-based >> project; and as such with the unfortunate impending balkanization of >> technology to geographic spheres, European government support of >> LibreOffice may increase if any perceived corporation headquarters >> (despite it being owned by the TDF -- because headquarters seems to be >> the only metric policymakers care about anymore) is domiciled in the >> EU rather than Canada. Canada is also heavily lobbied by Microsoft for >> government contracts and if there are future inroads being made by >> LibreOffice into Microsoft's cash cow product, I wouldn't be surprised >> to see speedbumps from the Canadian bureaucrats impeding TDC >> initiatives. I personally believe positioning LibreOffice as a >> made-in-Europe solution could lead to government grants and more >> support contracts, but this would require the TDF/TDC/Enterprise >> Stakeholders to commission a government relations firm to advocate on >> LibreOffice's behalf, or to engage in a grassroots campaign with >> LibreOffice users to raise awareness with local politicians (a tall >> order for something most people don't think about regularly). >> If you did want to proceed with setting something up in Canada then >> following the rules in the link above will cover your bases, but I >> would still recommend speaking to a Canadian lawyer who specializes in >> taxes and incorporation. I do know of a few that I can introduce the >> board to if they want to seriously consider this route. IMO it >> wouldn't be worth it - though I don't have complete information on the >> financial benefits of doing so vs. using a European country. > -- Sophie Gautier so...@libreoffice.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Foundation coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
