> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Reggie Bautista

...

> rob wrote:
> >Mary and the other saints are a lot like union stewards. They can get
> >things
> >done for you. <G>
> >It's quite a different meme than the ones that are found in most
> protestant
> >sects, but it has been with the catholic church long before the
> protestant
> >reformation. I would think that it has always been easy to misunderstand
> >and
> >was likely one of the contributing factors that led to the reformation.
>
> And unfortunately, I think this is also a concept that is
> mis-understood by
> many Catholics, as well, which only leads to further confusion.

The Reformation was much more about the inverse -- living people asking the
Pope to intervene on the part of the dead.  That was the primary abuse that
got Luther going.  The indulgence sellers were invoking the voices of the
dead, begging their living relatives to pay Rome to get them into heaven.

But I don't think this has much relevance to the church today... it is far
more relevant to media and advertising, where the rich and powerful once
again have figured out how to take advantage by selling things that aren't
theirs to give (happiness, etc.).

Nick

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