----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 12:03 AM Subject: Re: Most Dangerous States
> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:02 PM > Subject: Re: Most Dangerous States > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Pensinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 4:41 PM > > Subject: Re: Most Dangerous States > > > > > > > Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Doug Pensinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 4:02 PM > > > > Subject: Most Dangerous States > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>http://www.morganquitno.com/dang02.htm > > > >> > > > >>Nevada 7th most dangerous > > > >>Texas 14th > > > >>New York 24th > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > You forgot to mention California is 13th. > > > > > > > > > > No, I didn't forget, I just didn't think it had any relevance in the > > > current discussion. If anything, since California's rate is about > > > the same as Texas and it is listed as less dangerous than Nevada, it > > > falsifies Jan's implication that Nevada and Texas are much safer (or > > > much more "polite"). > > > > > This is a bit off on a tangent but deserves to be seen. > > > > > > Evaluating the "43 times" fallacy > > > > by David K. Felbeck > > Director, Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners > > August 10, 2000 > > > > Those who oppose the use of firearms for self-defense have for fourteen > > years quoted a study by Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay published in > the > > June 12, 1986 issue of New England Journal of Medicine (v. 314, n. 24, p. > > 1557-60) which concluded that a firearm in the home is "43 times more > > likely" to be used to kill a member of the household than to kill a > criminal > > intruder. This "statistic" is used regularly by anti self-protection > groups > > which surely know better, and was even published recently without > question > > in a letter to the Ann Arbor News. Representative Liz Brater cited this > "43 > > times" number in a House committee hearing just a year ago. Thus the > > original study and its conclusion deserve careful analysis. If nothing > else, > > the repeated use of this "statistic" demonstrates how a grossly > inaccurate > > statement can become a "truth" with sufficient repetition by the > compliant > > and non-critical media. > > > > The "43 times" claim was based upon a small-scale study of firearms > deaths > > in King County, Washington (Seattle and Bellevue) covering the period > > 1978-83. The authors state, > > > > "Mortality studies such as ours do not include cases in which burglars > or > > intruders are wounded or frightened away by the use or display of a > firearm. > > Cases in which would-be intruders may have purposely avoided a house > known > > to be armed are also not identified.A complete determination of firearm > > risks versus benefits would require that these figures be known." > > And the best way to show how this is true is to show how the % of people > who are victims of crimes and own guns are much lower than the % of people > who simply own guns. If owning guns is as much of a deterrant as this > author suggests, than one should see a significantly lower crime rate for > households that have guns vs. households that don't. > That would only hold true if the criminals were aware of who did and who did not own guns ahead of time. I think the gist of the argument is that legal gun ownership deters crime in general and there are stats that support this. But nothing is ever going to grind crime to a halt. I think this type of discussion tends to get people thinking about the extremes as opposed to the general tenor of the realities of life. There are many many millions of guns in the US, yet only a few thousand or so deaths in a given year. A small percentage of deaths by any cause. Its a mountain made out of a molehill. xponent Effort Better Placed Elsewhere Maru rob _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
