From: Erik Reuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On Thu, Jun 17, 2004 at 09:45:17PM +0100, Richard Baker wrote: >> isn't logical. (I am well aware that the probabilities themselves are >> predictable in principle, but unless you subscribe to a global hidden
>Which is of course what is relevant, and what I was referring to. Can I just remind you of what Rich actually said.. Rich >Well, I understand quantum mechanics and if "predictable" is a necessary >condition for something to be considered "logical" then the universe >isn't logical. (I am well aware that the probabilities themselves are >predictable in principle, but unless you subscribe to a global hidden >variables theory the outcomes themselves are not except in some special >cases.) Erik "That is because logical thought applies to reality" Read it again, and take it all in this time, not just the careful couching of the subtleties that Rich put in brackets, and which you chose to select a small portion of to support a position that you are slowly backing away from. If you recall, my original question was about people and logical behaviour, not about the physical laws of the universe, but regardless I stand by my contention, The universe is not logical. We use logic as a way to attempt to understand how the universe works, it is a human construct, a way of thinking, a useful tool. The universe cares not a jot about logic. It may, on a superfical glance, sometimes appear to be logical, but to assert that it is actually logical is putting the cart before the horse. The universe IS, logic is a mental aid to assist us in coming up with ways for the human brain to understand it. The need to distil the complexity of the universe into a few linear formulas is a tendancy I see often in engineers. And it has resulted in many of humankinds greatest achievements, but it is basically a Newtonian response to a quantum universe. That is not to devalue it, but one needs to understand its limitations. It works fine, as long as you use it on the right scale. Just cos the apple generally falls down, does not mean that the universe is logical, or that logic is reality. Andrew
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