On Nov 29, 2004, at 3:51 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
I'm not the one, Dan, who accuses others of being pro-child rape in order to try to score rhetorical points. You're in no position to judge.
I was honestly curious. After all man-boy love groups makes arguements
that were similar to the ones you made. I wanted clarification and got it.
I even apologized for wording it in a way that could be misunderstood. A
common technique I use is to first establish boundaries over which a
difference takes place, and then narrow the boundaries.
How interesting that even your "explanation" of your behavior (by which I mean the ad hominem attacks you've made) includes a backhanded ad hominem attack. You seem to see sex abuse victims and potential molestors with greater frequency, and in more people, than the average person.
Now you might argue that this has something to do with fields in which you've been involved over the years, but if they've clouded your opinion of your fellow human beings so much that your initial reaction to anyone is to presume the worst, I submit you need a long vacation.
Beyond that your talent for straw men is exquisite; and even when I respond to the data you submit, such as it is, by pointing out that it is not relevant to your assertions, you seem to believe I'm the one, not you, who made the mistake. Given the amazing quantity of unsubstantiated propositions you've put forth, the lack of relevant evidence to support those claims, and the misdirecting, ad hominem and straw man arguments, I cannot carry on a rational dialogue with you. I suggest you study Erik's rhetorical style. He's very good at this.
Regarding hate crimes -- I don't recognize the term and do not believe it should be legally defined. Murder is murder. Since hatecrime punishment is usually considerably more severe then punishments for the same crime given a different definition, I cannot see any criminal (or attorney) copping to a hatecrime plea voluntarily. Naturally the statistics are going to show depressed convictions.
Furthermore your "analysis" of the materials posted at hatecrime.org is hopelessly flawed. You cite "a gay group" listing "8 homicides over the last 9+ years", but you don't include any reference and you don't bother to mention links such as this one:
<http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html>
listing over 1200 crimes in 2002 based on sexual orientation; nor this one:
<http://www.civilrights.org/issues/hate/details.cfm?id=26241>
stating there were nearly 7500 hatecrime incidents in 2003, 17% of which occurred because of sexual orientation.
Murder statistics are not given at those sites, but I wonder why you think that's the litmus limit. There are plenty of crimes that warrant the use of any force necessary to terminate the perpetration. An armed GLBT population would go a long way toward stopping bigotry, wouldn't it?
Finally, as an exercise, I suggest you take this assessment and answer it truthfully.
<http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/etc/quiz.html>
That's it. We're through.
-- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror" http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf
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