----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <brin-l@mccmedia.com> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Permission Slips Re:RhetoricalQuestionsRE:RemovingDictatorsRe:PeacefulchangeL3
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:31:38 -0700, Warren Ockrassa wrote > > On Apr 29, 2005, at 5:07 AM, Erik Reuter wrote: > > > > > * Nick Arnett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > >> True, indeed. It *was* nonsensical to use that metaphor in that > > >> context, since it was about an issue that called for serious > > >> consideration. I don't know wny you can't seem to see that. > > > > > > Well, religion-addled brains are good for one thing, anyway. This is > > > more hilarious than the 3 Stooges! > > > > Out of curiosity, why is it that Erik and a few others are able to > > get away with incessant windbaggery and insulting behavior? > > Speaking for myself, I simply don't care what Erik or WTG have to say on that > subject, so I ignore it. It's probably the most codependent aspect of this > list that we overlook the severely antisocial behaviors of certain listmembers. > I found two interesting quotes on "permission slips" from the Bush white house. The first is a quote from the 2004 State of the Union Address. The second, is from a Cheney campaign speach of early September: <quote 1> >From the beginning, America has sought international support for our* operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we have gained much support. There is a difference, however, between leading a coalition of many nations, and submitting to the objections of a few. America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country. <end quote 1> <quote 2> Senator Kerry denounces American action when other countries don't approve as if the whole object of our foreign policy were to please a few persistent critics. In fact, in the global war on terror, as in Afghanistan and Iraq, President Bush has brought many allies to our side. But as the President has made very clear, there is a difference between leading a coalition of many, and submitting to the objections of a few. George W. Bush will never seek a permission slip to defend the American people. <end quote 2> There are a few interesting things about these two quotes. In the first, as JDG stated, permission slip refers to getting permission from the UN, not just listening to allies. The first quote doesn't offer that as an option. It offers getting allies in line vs. getting permission. I think it is fair to say we called in a lot of favors and twisted a lot of arms to get the coalition members to join us. The second reference did discuss seriously considering the views of other countries, although obliquely. Kerry suggested we work more _with_ allies to arrive at our objective. Cheney called that "denouncing when other countries don't approve". I think that this does reflect the mindset of the Bush Administration. Due consideration for the UN and other countries involves the obligation to preach to them, so they might see the light. But, if they don't, we proceed without them. No indication of seriously taking their opinions as worthwhile (except insofar as they support us) is given. So, I think David might have been more accurate referring to Cheney dissing seriously considering the opinions of others than saying Bush had. Bush actually didn't address this, he only had the options of others following us or needing to get a permission slip. Cheney was the one who publicly dissed Kerry's argument that we need to work more with our allies. Dan M. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
