>aren't you being self righteous about not being self righteous, olin? if >intolerance of intolerance is being self righteous, then i pleasd guilty, too. >jon
of course I'm being self-righteous -- notice that I was very careful to use inclusive language throughout what I wrote, even noting that we should all go back and read Dr. Brin's article. I'm one of the worst -- only in the last half-decade or so of my life have I learned to (usually) avoid taking a verbal sledgehammer to anyone I disagree with. Socrates said that if he was the wiesest man in Athens, it was only because he knew that he didn't know anything. None of us is going to eliminate these tendencies (short of genetic modification). I'd bet that even the Dalia Llama (if you don't like Buddhists please insert the religious or secular saint of your choice) would admit that he hasn't elmintated those traits. Its like a computer that goes back to its default settings every time you turn it off. The best we can do is try to always be aware of it and allow for it -- and we won't even succeed at that a lot of the time, which is why feedback, mutual criticism and transpa rency are so important. And we have to set these systems up -- both in the public sector and our own lives -- during the times when we're relatively sane, because once we're into our self-righteousness and our indignation and all that other stuff, we're not going to want to be corrected. Just look around the world today, at all the groups pointing weapons (physical and intellectual) at each other, and all the damage we're doing to the world because we're sure that we're right and we're most imporant -- and its not just one country or one political party, although I'll admit some are worse than others. I believe it's the single most imporatant issue we face. We either deal with it -- we either adapt to the new conditions our species faces -- or we die. Olin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Louis Mann<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:21 PM Subject: Sore losers > >Jon Louis Mann wrote: > >nationalism is an aberration > >found in many countries, and to be > >abhorred. it is especially repugnant > >in nations where their citizens actually > >believe they are better than other nations... > Nationalism is not an aberration -- it is one of the human > constants. Almost every tribal group ever examined had a > word for themselves that basically meant "People" > or "true people" and some equivalent to the Greek > word "barbarian" which meant "not us". > If you think about it in evolutionary terms, it makes > perfect sense. 99% of our evolutionary history was spent in > small, isloated bands, as hunter-gatherers, in a world where > humans were not the dominant species. Danger was > everywhere. Survival of the individual depended on > suvirival of the group. Anything from outside the groups > was suspect, dangerous, to be feared. Chimpanzees show a > lot of the same behaviors, even patrolling the boundaries of > their terriortories, attacking the members of other groups, > and, as Jane Goodall pointed out, having all out wars > between groups. So when you point to one country, or one > group, or one nationality, or whatever, and say > "They're the nationalistic ones", > "they're the evil ones", > "they're the aberration", you're > really just engaging in the same behavior you claim to be > derriding: "Us-and-them". Even more importantly, > you are avoiding responsibility for something that is > a common trait we all share by projecting it on > "them". We all have these tendencies, and the > only answer to them is reason, not emotion, name calling > and the generation of more fear and hate. As Dr. Brin > points out, the kinds of open, responsive systems that we > have developed in the past few centuries, are the only > antidote we know to the universal condition of tyrrany, > exploitation, war and tribalism. And we have to use our > reason to set up these systems despire the fact that it goes > against millions of years of evolutionary history (just like > I have to use my reason not to gorge myself on high-fat > foods at every possibility, even though my genes tell me it > has survivial value -- for my distant ancestors it did, and > the ones who stocked up on fat and calories when > they could surivived and passed the craving on to me -- it > today's world, though, it will kill me) ... > Judging from some of the recent discussion on this list, > maybe we should all go back and read some of the stuff Dr. > Brin has written about the addictive qualities of > self-righteous indignation? > Olin aren't you being self righteous about not being self righteous, olin? if intolerance of intolerance is being self righteous, then i pleasd guilty, too. jon _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l<http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l> _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
