Adam, et al, It's my understanding that UKUA intended to increase 'transparency' by publishing all tournament bids (to the website, I think?), starting in 2005, but that this is still yet to happen. I'm interested to know what the 2006 bids were and why UKUA Board chose to award the tournaments as they did. The same goes for 2007 (it still worries me that there appear to be 2 Tour events still marked as TBC on the UKUA diary - are we still missing bids? Is this public knowledge?).
I feel that publishing tournament bids would serve several purposes: a) allow UKUA members to know how many bids were received, how they compared, and the reasons for tournaments being awarded to the respective bids; b) enable UKUA members to provide feedback based on realistic expectations garnered from the bids, and how they felt the tournaments actually lived up to their bids; c) encourange UKUA members to consider bidding for events, if they see estimates of costs, income and potential profits (I know that I'd seriously consider running a Tour even again, if I had an up to date set of estimates!); d) reduce the risk of TDs hiking their prices between bidding and actual tournament time, due to 'market rates'. As much as I may respect and trust our TDs (though I don't yet officially know who they are for 2007!), I feel that there's currently nothing to stop TDs that won bids on a £120 entry fee from price hiking to a "cheaper than Tour 0" £170, or a "better than Tour 0" £200. I feel that the inference, earlier in the thread, that UKUA have subsequently decided not to publish tournament bids would be detrimental to the progress in our tournaments and standards, and would suggest that the Board review this at the earliest opportunity. I don't think it's rude to ask how much profit TDs are making from a tournament, as it's an event that many people are involved in and would like to see improved, but I will rephrase the question: Dear TD (of any and all 2007 UKUA sanctioned events) - Could you please provide, to the UKUA members, financial details of your 2007 UKUA sanctioned tournament bid, i.e. a detailed breakdown of the facilities that you intend to provide and the fiscal estimates for their provision; and a estimation of your anticipated income. Note: I haven't actually asked what your estimated profits might be, hopefully I can do the basic math to calculate the gross estimates, and the tax and NI issues may be a personal issue that _would_ be rude to ask about. I may be incorrect, as I can't find the bidding documentation on the website and have not retained my 2005 event bids, but it's my understanding that this info should be provided as a part of the bidding process, so should already be prepared and available? We probably didn't raise these issues last year, as we weren't certain whether we'd be paying a lot of money to slide around in the mud and rain (a la Bristol) in March/April - indeed, I suspect that most of us were looking forward to Mixed Tour 1 in York, and considered the money reasonably spent, before the event (which got some rather mixed reviews, after). Some personal opinions on your Bristol events: - you generally run the first event of the year, and the cost is always a shock to me (though I'm not sure why!); - the weather at your event is usually poor, sometimes extraordinarily so; - I'm always hoping that the increased prices will provide _something_ that makes up for the weather; - with reference to the point above, I'm always disappointed; - I'm "once bitten, twice shy", but usually in a "play or be damned" situation - i.e. not playing results in missing out on a shot at Tour titles, and/or poor seedings at the next event without time to make them up over the remainder of the 3 event Tour. - due to the above, I don't look forward to beginning of year events in Bristol, but make the most of it, which requires an additional effort that I'd prefer to be putting into my Ultimate - I love to play, but I don't consider tournaments in Bristol to be value for money, which is why I didn't express any interest in playing the unofficial Tour 0 event in 2006. This year especially, it seems to me that the majority of Open teams will be in a "play or be damned" situation. I think that the players have a right to know more financial information about the events, so that they can make decisions on whether they consider them to be value for money, and subsequently whether to participate and/or be actively involved in future tournament organisation. Some people will pay whatever it costs. Some won't. --- Wayne Retter wayne[dot]wrecker[at]ntlworld[dot]com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Batchelor Sent: 14 February 2007 18:49 To: [email protected]; IndoorsDOC Subject: Re: [BD] Tour 0 Price. We bid, and did not get an event in 2006. We bid and did get an event in 2007. Due to lack of continuity, the amazingly good deal we had went out of the window, and we were forced into commercially viable rates for a very popular large venue, which has had continued large capital investment and so has increased its prices disproportionately. Due to a 2 year gap in events, poor filing and general incompetance we had no idea what we charged last time, although we did recall that we were almost the cheapest event that year! (Caused tears as you can imagine!) Thankyou for reminding us! Hence, we looked at what was paid last year, £160 for the cheapest, £170 for another and £180 for two events. We bid and pitched at the market rate. We are charging market rate. If you want to change the market rate, then spend the time to find an appropriate venue, put your budgets together (please note the high fixed costs and low variable cost issues) and bid. Please, whatever you do, don't tell me how difficult it is to find suitable venues! We know, because we have already been through it! As for how much money we are making... Don't be so rude! Didn't your mum teach you that it is rather crass to talk of such things! Apologies for the brevity, but some private issues, are not in my opinion, a matter for public consumption, such as my financial position, and believe it or not.... accounts do not always show the true picture! So, even though I have, (just because its you Benji) I don't think it needs explaining. Cheers Adam PS Why the F********** did you not ask all this of last years organisers! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.34/679 - Release Date: 10/02/2007 16:08 __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp
