The problem this will all come up against is that teams are inherently lazy. To do this properly you need to sit down as a team after each game and assess each team spirit, and your own. That might happen for the first few games and maybe some teams will do that for the whole tournament but by Sunday afternoon I'd wager that most teams are scrambling round to fill in the spirit scores with a few teams members going "ooh they were good" or "ugh they made some dodgy calls"
The solution - have scorekeepers or maybe "spirit keepers" interview each captain after a game, but thats not really an option short of major international tournaments. ----- Original Message ---- From: Robbie Finch <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 17 May, 2011 14:20:03 Subject: Re: [BD] Spirit Scoring Afternoon all, To put this discussion in context, the current WFDF/BULA endorsed scoresheet is online at http://www.wfdf.org/rules/SOTG_v2010_EN.pdf I think most should be able to work out from this sheet, if it's presented, that the average score should be 'good' rather than 'excellent'*. So, I agree with Luke's first point that the standard system should be used at all times rather than the currently trendy 'pick a number out of 20 and write it on a blank piece of paper' system. Personally I doubt that further clarification would be needed if the full scoresheet was regularly used. Cheers, Robbie * - Even if 'excellent' is considered the average in the first four categories, by giving your opponents 4's in category 5 you're admitting to some pretty poor spirit on your own part. I personally have a soft spot for this as it makes me chuckle when counting up scores. ________________________________ From: Luke Tobiasiewicz <[email protected]> To: BritDisc <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, 17 May, 2011 13:20:38 Subject: Re: [BD] Spirit Scoring I would also apologise in advance for the hand I played in bringing this up at the AGM and thank Jim for biting the bullet and getting the discussion started ... I think that we definitely need to agree on a standardised method of generating the score so that spirit scores given by different teams are comparable and the whole league table of spirit scores at the end of a tournament means something! Quick explanation of how drastic these differences can be below. If you already get it then skip this next part ----- Team A has played well spirit wise over the weekend and has had no real issues. The teams they played have mostly given a middle average of 10 for a regular game. The team scores an average of 13 and comes last in the spirit tables. Team B has played poorly spirit wise over the weekend but has had a couple of poorly spirited games. The teams they have played have mostly given a high average of 18 for a regular game. Team B scores an average of 15 for the tournament, 3rd from top in spirit. Now obviously there is something wrong here as a well spirited team has come last in the spirit rankings and a poorly spirited team very near the top. Apart from the injustice of it all (! ouch ) the teams will take away the wrong message from their placement in the spirit rankings, Team A believing that they've done something terribly wrong and need to address it, while what is worse I think, Team B going away thinking that their spirit over the weekend was very good when in fact it was not. ----- I would suggest 2 simple things that would resolve the issue: 1. Clear advice is given to TD's running UKU sanctioned events to use the official scoring system, there have been a few tournaments over the last 2 seasons where the system has not been used or has been modified in some way, which defeats the point of having a standardised system. 2. Clear advice is given to teams to standarise the scoring, and I would suggest that a baseline score of 10 to which you can add to for well spirited team and take away from for a poorly spirited team is adopted. This would also address Hatden's (valid or not) point of which teams win spirit and why. Luke Tobiasiewicz Fire of London #13 St Albans Club President On 17 May 2011 12:05, Jim Hancox <[email protected]> wrote: > BritDisc, > > Firstly, an apology - if this innocent e-mail starts a thread that fills > people's inboxes then I'm sorry. However, this post is done with the backing > of Si Hill so if you do want to complain, do it in his direction! ;-) > > At the UKU AGM on held last Friday the subject of Spirit was brought up. In > traditional AGM fashion, the discussion went somewhat off topic and the > intricacies of how teams score their opponents spirit was touched on. > > As you know, UKU sanctioned tournaments have adopted the BULA spirit > scoring system for a while now and, on the whole, this seems to have > positively received. The purpose of this post is spark a bit of debate as to > how teams actually generate an opponents score using this system and to, > hopefully, settle on a method of doing this that every team can use ensuring > that all the submitted scores at a tournament are relevant to each other. > > So, what am I really getting at?! Well, having spoken to a few people at > recent tournaments it seems that there is a difference in how teams use this > system. For example, some teams will reckon on a an averagely spirited game > getting a score of 10/20 and then adjusting the score either positively or > negatively according to the specifics of a game. > > An alternative, and seemingly quite common, approach is to always start > with a score of 20/20 and deduct points for anything less than perfect sprit > by your opponent. > > These two approaches could easily conjure up quite different scores for the > same game... > > I don't really care which way of doing things is correct if I'm honest. I > just want to make sure that when I fill out a sheet, I'm doing it the same > way as everyone else!! > > Cheers... > > Jim. > > Jim Hancox > Interim UKU Mixed Coordinator > [email protected] > > www.ukultimate.com > > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
