The Official UKU guidelines from what I can tell (please correct me if I'm wrong) are:
UKU Guide for TD's http://www.ukultimate.com/files/How_to_run_a_UKUA_tour_5.pdf Pitch Quality - P7 "Have a minimum of 5m between perimeter lines and adjacent pitches or other obstacles." & from the Generic Risk Assessment: http://www.ukultimate.com/system/files/UKU%20Generic%20Risk%20Assessments.xls 1.07 - Players may collide with spectators "Spectators are advised (and sometimes required) to stay back from the sideline of the pitch. Anyone within 2m of a sideline should be able to move quickly and maintain their attention on the game." However, in my experience these are rarely met for all pitches at UKU Tournaments. For example in Cardiff, which is a great venue and I only mention it as it's fresh in my memory and not criticising Thac who ran another excellent tournament there: - Many of the pitches were closer than 5m apart from side / endzone lines - Many of the pitches had concrete curbs / drain covers / stakes from fences within a couple of meters of the sideline - Plenty of kit, players & spectators crammed into narrow sideline spaces I myself have struggled to do so at tournaments I've run with Midlands Regionals last year having some cricket nets 3m out the back of the endzone on one of the pitches and a hedge 4m from the sideline on another. I currently see 3 ways forward for this: 1. The UKU require TD's to stick rigidly to the guidelines. This would mean that we see far fewer pitches available, even at large venues like Cardiff meaning that tournament sizes would have to be restricted further. It would also make it more expensive to run tournaments as you'd be hiring the same space but accommodating less teams ... On the plus side we'd have some safer & smoother (no need to clear lines) tournaments. 2. There is some leeway introduced in reducing pitch sizes from H&S point of view, when required. I have heard that this is under discussion at the WFDF level due to the problems in finding suitable venues for large international tournaments. This is however a pretty touchy / tricky subject as changing the stringent playing field requirements can potentially change the game ... not to mention trying to keep to some sort of standard, even at a individual tournament ... It might be a good short term solution to meet the H&S requirements while the wider topic is addressed ... 3. No change ... Probably the worst of the 3 given that it leaves players, TD's & the UKU in an unsafe situation. However I'm sure we will all continue to be vigilant at tournaments and perhaps a little more aware of the dangers of sitting with our backs to an endzone just 1m away or bringing bags onto a narrow (less than 5m) sideline space ... let alone our children. No easy solution and plenty of discussion to be had, with inevitably more work for the overworked UKU at some point in all of this. Luke T On 3 April 2012 21:03, Alex Rogers <[email protected]> wrote: > Hey, > > Another parent here. > > I'm fairly sure that there are guidelines for gaps between pitches at UKU > sanctioned events. The guys at Cardiff always put on a great tourney and > currently there are no requirements to allow enough space for > spectators/children around the pitches, though some of the pitches did have > ample space around them. > > It's probably technically the UKU that's liable, but we certainly see it as > our responsibility to keep our child safe over the weekend (and during the > week the that point). Our team mates helped out too, but that's cause > they're great didn't mind. > > It's certainly not easy to play your best and keep focussed as a team while > looking after a kid as well - someone mentioned supervised areas for kids - > this would likely drive the price of tournaments up or limit the venues to > places that had space for this. Might be worth a show of hands to see how > many parents would take advantage of this and how much they would be > willing to pay > > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 6:33 PM, Paul Holden <[email protected]> wrote: > >> As a parent as well I'm afraid that I have to disagree with Nicole on >> this. The space between pitches is not the place to have a small child, >> even a supervised one. At most uk venues I would argue that the space is >> not really sufficient to have any type of spectator but we are where we >> are. To say that the ukua or any player should be liable for injury to a >> child put in that position by their parents does not seem to show much >> respect for the rights of other players to play the game or much sense >> given that no amount of financial compensation will make up for a serious >> injury to your child. >> >> Sorry if this comes over as a bit heavy but the level of disregard for the >> players on the field by un-involved/semi-involved persons on the sidelines >> has been a bugbear of mine for a while now. The space between pitches is >> not likely to increase in the near future unless litigation, or the threat >> of such, forces it. Therefore the correct response from the community >> should be to take a good hard look at ourselves and how we use that space. >> >> ------------------ >> regards, >> Paul >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nicole Cozens <[email protected]> >> Sender: [email protected] >> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 17:33:58 >> To: Jazz<[email protected]>; britdisc<[email protected]> >> Reply-To: Nicole Cozens <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [BD] Rules of ultimate >> >> As a parent who took a little person to mixed tour, it is a concern. When >> we played on some pitches, the only place we could set up shop was the 2m >> spacing between the pitches. Other pitches were much better as there was >> spacing provided by the cricket square or some other feature that I forget. >> Obviously as our little person is really quite little (18 months) we made >> sure there was always someone with her and she didn't go too near the >> sideline/disc. >> >> As my husband and I play on the same team it is inevitable that our >> daughter will be on the sidelines of our game unless Dan and I play one >> game on, one game off with each other. We could've set up a space for our >> daughter at the foot of pitches but that would've had significant playing >> implications as our team couldn't have looked after Catherine as they were >> being sideline on the sideline rather than the footline.... >> >> I think with just a little more space between the pitches it would >> certainly ease the concerns of parents, plus lessen the laying out on to >> bikes/nalgenes/other things that cause owiness. >> >> I think the other emailers are right that the problem with this is the >> trying to shoehorn a bazillion teams in to a small space >> . >> How do the other side live? What space is available at North American top >> tournaments (ECC and the such?). It would be interesting to compare. >> Certainly at the international tournaments I've played at the spacing >> between pitches has seemed slightly bigger. Where do the guidelines come >> from? UKU or WFDF? >> >> Re: legality I'm fairly sure we have personal liability covered by the UKU >> so if someone landed on Catherine and we got persuaded by a no win no fee >> solicitor type thing I think our UKU membership covers such an eventuality, >> and the liability of the TDs presuming everyone followed the guidelines. >> Si? >> >> Nicole >> Brighton etc. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Jazz <[email protected]> >> To: britdisc <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 2:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [BD] Rules of ultimate >> >> This is an issue that's probably been swept under the carpet for a while >> now. >> >> I'm sure we've all seen players collide with bags, spectators, other >> players etc, with varying degrees of injury. My own personal pet hate is >> when players dump their bicycles between adjoining pitches, but that would >> all be nothing compared to landing on someone's kid. >> >> In any such event, who might be liable - the player, the UKU (as the >> official sanctioning body of the tournament), or the TD for not enforcing >> distance guidelines? >> >> Demand from teams encourages TDs to squeeze in as many fields as possible. >> Perhaps this potential liability, or some pressure from the UKU might >> encourage them to ensure proper pitch spacing. >> >> That said, I think there's also a point about us as players respecting the >> sidelines and distances too. >> >> All the best folks >> >> Jazz >> Thundering Herd >> >> >> >> On 3 Apr 2012, at 14:09, Luke Tobiasiewicz <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Regarding kids ... Despite the relatively small chance of discs >> > hitting kids on the sideline there is a much greater likelihood of >> > players running into / jumping on or laying through spectators on the >> > sideline. I have seen a lot of examples of this including layouts into >> > a buggy (luckly empty), through a seated spectator (not so lucky) as >> > well as personally landing on a small kid (I was pretty shaken and >> > luckily no lasting damage). >> > >> > I know there are UKU & WFDF guidelines in place regarding distances >> > between pitches & other things (5m) and location of spectators (within >> > 2m should be able to move out the way quickly). Perhaps these need to >> > be enforced more strictly on / by TD's ... perhaps the rules needs to >> > be tightened up somewhat ... eg: Nothing to be within 2m of the pitch: >> > bags, people, waterbottles, discs. This would have the added benefit >> > of reducing the number of times you have to ask spectators to clear a >> > sideline ... or kick bags out the way ... or wind yourself (or worse) >> > landing on one of those dammed unbreakable nalgenes :-) >> > >> > Luke T >> > >> > On Apr 3, 2012 1:03 PM, "Paul Waite" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> no change in rules in turnovers section 13 of WFDF 2009 >> >> 13.1.7. the thrower has not released the disc before the marker first >> starts to say the >> >> word “ten” in the stall count (a “stall-out”) >> >> >> >> V >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Felix <[email protected]> >> >> To: [email protected] >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2012, 12:35 >> >> Subject: Re: [BD] Rules of ultimate >> >> >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> >> >> You'll find a lot of people claim the rules have recently changed, this >> is >> >> usually because they trust somebody who has recently got the rules >> wrong. >> >> I've seen people I trust get the rules wrong, and I've gotten the rules >> >> wrong in at least one important situation myself - memory and >> >> interpretation are never perfect, so instead I recommend reading through >> >> the current rules at the start of each season, as rule discussions >> during >> >> games are almost inevitable it seems - and you want at least half a leg >> to >> >> stand on. >> >> To my knowledge there have been no WFDF rule changes since 2009. >> >> >> >> Regarding kids on the sidelines, I also worry about that - I've seen >> many a >> >> high disc come down hard and fast five meters out the side of the >> pitch... >> >> but I guess it's a question of likelihood, and in reality we're talking >> >> about 1 in 10,000 chance it'll come down on a buggy or something, if >> one is >> >> on the sideline. Still, I don't like those odds (though I did just make >> >> them up). >> >> >> >> I've seen odd tournaments / leagues in the USA where they have areas >> where >> >> kids and toddlers are being supervised - not sure whether it's a >> voluntary >> >> thing with parents taking shifts or what, but as the sport (and thus the >> >> players of the sport) mature, perhaps it's something someone should >> think >> >> about making happen over here too. >> >> >> >> Felix >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 31 March 2012 10:20, Daniel Ferneyhough <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Morning Britdisc, >> >>> >> >>> After hearing a few times over the past couple of weeks about changes >> to >> >>> rules, specifically stall outs being the n of ten instead of t, I went >> on a >> >>> search for clarification. As yet I haven't found anything in the 2009 >> wfdf >> >>> rules (the current rules used by ukua), please can someone confirm deny >> >>> this? >> >>> >> >>> Also, at mt1 last week, I noticed a number of small children on the >> >>> sidelines of games, not always directly supervised. I was wondering >> what >> >>> the ukua's stance is on this and what measures they have in place to >> >>> mitigate the risk of injury by player or disc. Whilst I completely >> >>> understand parents bringing their children to competition, when they >> are >> >>> sitting so close to sidelines there is a risk that they could get >> caught up >> >>> in play. Whilst this hasn't happened yet, this could have terrible >> >>> consequences for the child, the players involved and the sport in the >> uk. >> >>> >> >>> Cheers >> >>> >> >>> Dan >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Dan Ferneyhough >> >>> __________________________________________________ >> >>> BritDisc mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >> >>> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed >> >>> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> >> BritDisc mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >> >> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed >> >> __________________________________________________ >> >> BritDisc mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >> >> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > BritDisc mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >> > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed >> >> __________________________________________________ >> BritDisc mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed >> __________________________________________________ >> BritDisc mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed >> __________________________________________________ >> BritDisc mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >> Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed >> > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed -- St Albans Ultimate www.stalbansultimate.co.uk 07709768069 __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
