Hehe!
The difference I spot is the move filters. However the analysis uses less
filtering than hint, and yet it is analysis which get's it wrong? Strange.
In my settings I have:
Move filter for 2 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity
0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
I wonder what happens if I increase this to 16/0.32.... ?
Hah! Then I get the same thing as you!
Rolled 51 (-0.066):
1. Cubeful 2-ply 24/18 Eq.: -1.8477
0.1439 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.8561 0.7156 0.4286
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
2. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 6/5 Eq.: -1.9908 (-0.1431)
0.1062 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.8938 0.7347 0.6269
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
3. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 7/6 Eq.: -2.0118 (-0.1641)
0.1022 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.8978 0.7392 0.6261
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
* 4. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 18/17 Eq.: -2.0615 (-0.2139)
0.0892 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9108 0.7435 0.6447
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
So.... the conclusion must be that there is something funny with the
movefilters. Don't know what.
-Øystein
On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Terje Pedersen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sure.
>
> Best regards,
> TP
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Øystein Schønning-Johansen
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > This observation can be a clue, indeed.
> >
> > Can you do:
> > show evaluation
> > show analyzis
> >
> > That will hopefully give us the difference in the settings, that lead to
> the
> > different results.
> >
> > -Øystein
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 1:36 PM, Terje Pedersen <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I tried adding:
> >>
> >> set evaluation chequerplay evaluation prune off
> >>
> >> to the command file but the output is the same.
> >>
> >> I have noticed that if I use 'hint' instead of 'analyze move' I get a
> >> completely different result.
> >>
> >> set player 0 human
> >> new match 0
> >> set output rawboard off
> >> set xgid XGID=----BBCA-----A----B-B--eB-:0:0:1:51:0:3:0:5:10
> >> move 24/19 18/17
> >> previous
> >> hint
> >>
> >> Perhaps it could be a clue. Not sure.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> TP
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Øystein Schønning-Johansen
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > Yes! Things looks correct.
> >> >
> >> > I browse the code history from your release to the one I'm using. The
> >> > only
> >> > change I can see that may matter, is the use of pruning neural
> networks
> >> > in
> >> > move selections.
> >> > Can you try also with pruning turned turned off. Does that change
> >> > anything?
> >> >
> >> > -Øystein
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 12:38 PM, Terje Pedersen <[email protected]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi!
> >> >>
> >> >> Initially it triggered on an ubuntu server: 4.4.0-67-generic
> >> >> #88-Ubuntu that runs the same 1.05.000 version of gnu bg then I tried
> >> >> it on my Windows 10 machine and got the same result.
> >> >>
> >> >> (No game) show matchequitytable
> >> >> Match equity table: Kazaross XG2 25 point MET
> >> >> (/usr/local/share/gnubg/met/Kazaross-XG2.xml)
> >> >>
> >> >> looks good.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'll give 1.06 version a try and see if it will handle this position
> >> >> differently.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for your reply!
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >> TP
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 11:44 AM, Øystein Schønning-Johansen
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > Really strange. However it is a heisenbug (of course). I cannot
> >> >> > recreate
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > bug on my system. (GNU Backgammon 1.06.000 Dec 13 2017, Arch
> Linux)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Here is how the same thing looks at my system:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > GNU Backgammon Position ID: PgAAALYLBDMMAA
> >> >> > Match ID : cImmADAAAAAE
> >> >> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ O: gnubg
> >> >> > | X X | | X O X | OO 3 points
> >> >> > | X | | X O X | OO
> >> >> > | | | O | OO
> >> >> > | | | O | OO
> >> >> > | | | O | OO
> >> >> > v| |BAR| | 5 point match
> (Cube:
> >> >> > 1)
> >> >> > | | | |
> >> >> > | | | |
> >> >> > | | | X |
> >> >> > | | | X X X | Rolled 51
> >> >> > | X | | X X X | 0 points
> >> >> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ X: oystein
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Cube analysis
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeless equity -2.2349 (Money: -2.0391)
> >> >> > 0.0860 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9140 0.7715 0.4396
> >> >> > Cubeful equities:
> >> >> > 1. No double -2.0550
> >> >> > 2. Double, pass +1.0000 (+3.0550)
> >> >> > 3. Double, take -2.4258 (-0.3708)
> >> >> > Proper cube action: No double, take (10.8%)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Rolled 51 (-0.066):
> >> >> > * 1. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 18/17 Eq.: -2.0615
> >> >> > 0.0892 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9108 0.7435 0.6447
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 2. Cubeful 2-ply 13/7 Eq.: -2.1614
> >> >> > (-0.0999)
> >> >> > 0.0707 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9293 0.7800 0.6404
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 3. Cubeful 2-ply 13/8 6/5 Eq.: -2.1766
> >> >> > (-0.1151)
> >> >> > 0.0701 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9299 0.7866 0.6634
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 4. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 6/5 Eq.: -2.1963
> >> >> > (-0.1348)
> >> >> > 0.0603 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9397 0.7831 0.6918
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 5. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 18/13 Eq.: -2.2086
> >> >> > (-0.1470)
> >> >> > 0.0567 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9433 0.7815 0.7003
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 6. Cubeful 2-ply 18/12 Eq.: -2.2291
> >> >> > (-0.1676)
> >> >> > 0.0544 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9456 0.7887 0.6961
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 7. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 13/8 Eq.: -2.2481
> >> >> > (-0.1866)
> >> >> > 0.0524 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9476 0.7953 0.6954
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 8. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 7/2 Eq.: -2.2952
> >> >> > (-0.2337)
> >> >> > 0.0476 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9524 0.8135 0.7098
> >> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> > 9. Cubeful 0-ply 24/19 6/5 Eq.: -2.1277
> >> >> > (-0.0661)
> >> >> > 0.0653 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9347 0.7599 0.4187
> >> >> > 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
> >> >> > 10. Cubeful 0-ply 18/13 7/6 Eq.: -2.1289
> >> >> > (-0.0674)
> >> >> > 0.0648 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9352 0.7593 0.5707
> >> >> > 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm on this system:
> >> >> > [oystein@jupiter ~]$ gnubg -t < terjebug.txt
> >> >> > GNU Backgammon 1.06.000 Dec 13 2017
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Can you supply which OS, version/build of GNU Backgammon (well that
> >> >> > looks
> >> >> > like you got "GNU Backgammon 1.05.000 Nov 27 2016"). Can you also
> >> >> > state
> >> >> > which match equity table you are using?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I have a theory that it get's the wrong answer because it
> calculates
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > gammonvalue (or actually the backgammon value in this case)
> >> >> > incorrectly.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > can you append
> >> >> >
> >> >> > show matchequitytable
> >> >> > show marketwindow
> >> >> > show gammonvalues
> >> >> >
> >> >> > to your command file, and submit the output?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -Øystein
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Terje Pedersen <[email protected]
> >
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hi!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I just ran into what looks like a gnu evaluation bug where gnu
> seems
> >> >> >> to suggest that I should try to avoid backgammon when a gammon
> will
> >> >> >> lose the match anyway. command file:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> set player 0 human
> >> >> >> new match 0
> >> >> >> set output rawboard off
> >> >> >> set xgid XGID=----BBCA-----A----B-B--eB-:0:0:1:51:0:3:0:5:10
> >> >> >> move 24/19 18/17
> >> >> >> next
> >> >> >> previous
> >> >> >> analyze move
> >> >> >> show board
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> $ ./gnubg.exe -t -c commands.txt
> >> >> >> GNU Backgammon 1.05.000 Nov 27 2016
> >> >> >> Copyright (C) 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 by Gary Wong.
> >> >> >> Copyright (C) 2015 by Gary Wong and the AUTHORS; for details type
> >> >> >> `show version'.
> >> >> >> This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type
> >> >> >> `show
> >> >> >> warranty'.
> >> >> >> This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
> under
> >> >> >> certain conditions; type `show copying' for details.
> >> >> >> Moves for gnubg must now be entered manually.
> >> >> >> A new session has been started.
> >> >> >> TTY boards will be given in ASCII.
> >> >> >> The dice have been set to 5 and 1.
> >> >> >> GNU Backgammon Position ID: PgAAALYLBDMMAA
> >> >> >> Match ID : cImmADAAAAAE
> >> >> >> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ O: gnubg
> >> >> >> | X X | | X O X | OO 3 points
> >> >> >> | X | | X O X | OO
> >> >> >> | | | O | OO
> >> >> >> | | | O | OO
> >> >> >> | | | O | OO
> >> >> >> v| |BAR| | 5 point match
> >> >> >> (Cube:
> >> >> >> 1)
> >> >> >> | | | |
> >> >> >> | | | |
> >> >> >> | | | X |
> >> >> >> | | | X X X | Rolled 51
> >> >> >> | X | | X X X | 0 points
> >> >> >> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ X: terje
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Cube analysis
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeless equity -2.238 (Money: -2.039)
> >> >> >> 0.086 0.000 0.000 - 0.914 0.771 0.440
> >> >> >> Cubeful equities:
> >> >> >> 1. No double -2.058
> >> >> >> 2. Double, pass +1.000 ( +3.058)
> >> >> >> 3. Double, take -2.430 ( -0.372)
> >> >> >> Proper cube action: No double, take (10.9%)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Rolled 51 (-0.066):
> >> >> >> 1. Cubeful 2-ply 24/18 Eq.: -1.850
> >> >> >> 0.144 0.000 0.000 - 0.856 0.716 0.430
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 2. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 6/5 Eq.:
> -1.994 (
> >> >> >> -0.143)
> >> >> >> 0.106 0.000 0.000 - 0.894 0.735 0.627
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 3. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 7/6 Eq.:
> -2.015 (
> >> >> >> -0.164)
> >> >> >> 0.102 0.000 0.000 - 0.898 0.739 0.626
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> * 4. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 18/17 Eq.:
> -2.065 (
> >> >> >> -0.214)
> >> >> >> 0.089 0.000 0.000 - 0.911 0.743 0.647
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 5. Cubeful 2-ply 13/7 Eq.:
> -2.165 (
> >> >> >> -0.314)
> >> >> >> 0.071 0.000 0.000 - 0.929 0.780 0.641
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 6. Cubeful 2-ply 13/8 6/5 Eq.:
> -2.180 (
> >> >> >> -0.329)
> >> >> >> 0.070 0.000 0.000 - 0.930 0.787 0.663
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 7. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 6/5 Eq.:
> -2.200 (
> >> >> >> -0.349)
> >> >> >> 0.060 0.000 0.000 - 0.940 0.783 0.692
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 8. Cubeful 2-ply 7/2 6/5 Eq.:
> -2.206 (
> >> >> >> -0.355)
> >> >> >> 0.068 0.000 0.000 - 0.932 0.799 0.669
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 9. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 18/13 Eq.:
> -2.212 (
> >> >> >> -0.361)
> >> >> >> 0.057 0.000 0.000 - 0.943 0.781 0.700
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >> 10. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 7/6 Eq.:
> -2.229 (
> >> >> >> -0.378)
> >> >> >> 0.056 0.000 0.000 - 0.944 0.789 0.702
> >> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Any idea what is going on here? I am using gnu bg for evaluating
> >> >> >> moves
> >> >> >> on Backgammon Studio when playing online matches and was hit in
> the
> >> >> >> face with this double blunder which I was confident couldn't
> >> >> >> possibly
> >> >> >> be correct. XG doesn't think it is much of an error:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 2. XG Roller++ 24/19 18/17 eq:-2.2250
> (-0.0057)
> >> >> >> Player: 7.58% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
> >> >> >> Opponent: 92.42% (G:76.45% B:64.53%)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >> >> TP
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Bug-gnubg mailing list
> >> >> >> [email protected]
> >> >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
>
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