i would rather carry over Crenulate for drumila from *several* books (Evans, Wynter-Blyth, Larsen) to avoid confusion while referring to these more widely used, standard books. as for 'crenulate' not applying to all the individuals of a species, that problem plagues many english names; e.g. names based only on male or female characters such as the Striped Blue Crow for Euploea sylvester, and many "blues" (Lycaenidae), females of which may be brown. i don't think this is a good reason to change established names. the confusion would be compounded regarding the english names of drumila and multistrigatus if multistrigatus is deemed a good species based on future genitalic and genetic work (which is very much a possibility since multistrigatus is a subjective synonym, not an objective synonym). therefore the use of Crenulate Brownie for drumila can easily accommodate taxonomic reversions of multistrigatus.
as for indian heritage not carrying the historical baggage of the west, good luck to anyone using names such as the Nigger and the Darkie in the global village (or even in india, where in some colleges you occasionally see african students). in a world where international collaborations are commonplace, i wonder how long you can maintain this insular view. on the other hand, i haven't heard anyone insulted by being called 'brownie'. you use the word in your book for Miletus chinensis (the Common Brownie), anyway; and neither you nor peter smetacek seem to mind the word even if you are both south asian. if people have any objections to that word, i would change even that rather than stick to all the racist names previously used (folks, let me know if you can think of any good alternatives). thanks for pointing out the Smith reference. i will check it out. At 11:53 AM +0530 12/16/08, Isaac Kehimkar wrote: >Dr. Kunte, looks like you have referred all books, except one >"Illustrated Checklist of Butterflies of Nepal" by Colin Smith >which has Great Darkie listed. Please check this out. > >And before I close this topic permanently from my side and I go out >chasing butterflies which is what I enjoy, here are the unbiased >comments from one of the leading experts on Indian Lepidoptera, Mr. >Peter Smetachek who is author of Butterflies of Delhi, Kalpavriksh) >and a known name in lepidoptera research. Isaac > >" Dear Isaac, >Torben Larsen considers that Allotinus multistrigatus and A. drumila >are conspecific. In that event, drumila is senior and should be used. >Concerning the common name, there are two available, Crenulate >Darkie and Great Darkie. Since only some of the individuals, >previously classified as drumila, have crenulate wing margins, it is >sensible to use Great Darkie, a term which is appliable to those >individuals previously known as A. multistrigatus as well as those >known as drumila. >Concerning the use of the term Darkie, there is no law of precedence >applicable to trivial names. If it were applicable, of course Darkie >would have precedence. While the term "Darkie" might be politically >incorrect for use with reference to people of African origin in >America and Europe, the term Brownie could be construed to be >equally offensive to people of Middle Eastern or South Asian origin, >who are not familiar with the use of the term Brownie outside an >American context or in fairy tales. >To my mind, therefore, you have correctly labelled the insect in the >photograph as a Great Darkie. The term is for use in India, where >American guilt over slavery is not a part of our national heritage. >Warm regards, >Peter " > > >--- On Mon, 15/12/08, [email protected] ><[email protected]> wrote: > >From: [email protected] <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [ButterflyIndia] GREAT DARKIE - What's there in the name?? much! >To: [email protected] >Date: Monday, 15 December, 2008, 11:06 PM > >dear isaac and others, > >please continue to call me by my name. although the "Dr." helps in >professional matters (which is why it appears in my email >signature), PhD is just another degree i have picked up along the >way. i am happy to remain plain 'krushnamegh' on this group. > >turning to the issue at hand, it is precisely because anyone can >give english names to butterflies, you should *also* have mentioned >the scientific name in your email. this is a practice that i have >always followed and urged everyone to follow at least when they know >what they are talking about, and know enough about scientific names. >you are welcome to follow this practice if you wish; otherwise there >are going to be more confusions like this one in the future, just as >there have been in the past (recall the case of balakrishnan >valappil's hemipteran for which you supplied the name "Hitler bugs", >and my butterflyindia email of 16 Feb. 2007 in response). > >but this goes beyond a mere confusion. regarding the english name of >A. drumila, i have checked all of colin smith's books (by the way, >the name is not with two 'l's, as you mention it in your email): >Field Guide to Nepal's Butterflies (1981), Butterflies of Nepal >(Central Himalaya) (1989), and Butterflies of Royal Chitwan National >Park Nepal (1997). none of them list Allotinus drumila or the Great >Darkie either in the text or in the index. if you can tell me which >of his books or other publications gives A. drumila as the Great >Darkie, i will look it up. even wynter-blyth' s Butterflies of the >Indian Region (1957) gives drumila as the Crenulate Darkie. looking >at more recent books, torben larsen's Butterflies of Bangladesh - an >Annotated Checklist (2004), gives A. drumila as Crenulate Darkie, >not as the Great Darkie. so all the authors, except you, refer to >drumila by its english name as the Crenulate Darkie. my email did >not concern the difference between Darkie and Brownie, although i >did mention the reason for the change between the two. it concerned >the correctness of 'Crenulate' (which is standard as i just >mentioned) and 'Great' (which is not) for drumila. so your >accusation of my imposing non-standard english names is simply >incorrect and demands some reflection, and referencing, on your part. > >about the issue of the replacement english name of A. drumila, >Onelook.com (http://www. onelook.com/ ?w=brownie&ls=a) gives only >three definitions of 'brownie': > >noun: square or bar of very rich chocolate cake usually with nuts >noun: (folklore) fairies that are somewhat mischievous >name: A surname (very rare: popularity rank in the U.S.: #36189) > >Onelook.com has links to miriam webster's, cambridge and many other >highly respected english language dictionaries, in which you can >confirm that 'brownie' does not have the racist connotations that >'darkie' always has. the most common usage of 'brownie' is in >reference to the dark brown cake (definition 1 above), presumably >based on its color, which is appropriate to describe these >butterflies. so, my replacement of Darkie by Brownie had an >explanation in my last email, which, given the long and terrible >history of slavery-related human abuse in the west, is a mighty good >reason for the name change. in absence of previous usage of the name >combinations by any of the authors you say you follow, what is your >good reason for assigning the "Great Darkie" to A. drumila in your >book and in your email when that name had previously been assigned >in two important books to a junior synonym, A. multistrigatus? you >have caused simply unnecessary trouble with this usage. > >my english names will be published soon, with notes and explanations >for every name that differs from that given in evans's >Identification of Indian Butterflies (1932), which gave english >names to all the indian butterflies then known (and as a rule i will >change only those names that are racist, objectionable or wrong on >other grounds, such as the Nigger for Orsotriaena medus, which i >will call the 'Medus Brown' in my next book). i hope that the >english names of indian butterflies will be standardized after that, >just as english names of north american and british butterflies have >been standardized in reference books that list all of their species >and subspecies. however, i hope that we will continue to mention >english and scientific names of butterflies in our posts on this >group even after that because our group will always remain a mixture >of amateurs and professionals. i have said this before and i repeat >here: names don't contribute any additional information on species, >but names mean much because they convey precisely what we are >talking about and thus avoid confusion when communicating with >others. this should be easy to accept. > >best regards, > >At 11:57 AM +0530 12/15/08, Isaac Kehimkar wrote: > >>Dr. Kunte, >> >Unfortunately there are no rules for giving Common Names to >butterflies or any species like the Code for Zoological >Nomenclature, so any one can give a common name to a species > as one wishes to suit their fancy. Dr. Kunte, if you wish to >change from "Darkie" to "Brownie" it does not serve the purpose as >" Brownie" too has a racist connotations. > > > >I follow Collin Smith for the butterfly names and taxonomy for the >north-east and after consulting a good lot of butterfly >taxonomists, both national and international, it is clear >that Allotinus drumila and Allotinus multistrigatus are conspecific >and in this case I have followed Collin Smith ( author of >Butterflies of Nepal), who calls it GREAT DARKIE. I follow only >those who have established reputation in field of butterfly taxonomy. > > > >Please do not impose your " Common Names" unless published in a >peer-reveiwed Journal or known publication. > >Isaac Kehimkar > > > > > >--- On Sun, 14/12/08, krushnamegh@ mail.utexas. edu <krushnamegh@ >mail.utexas. edu> wrote: > >From: krushnamegh@ mail.utexas. edu <krushnamegh@ mail.utexas. edu> >Subject: Re: [ButterflyIndia] PHOTOGRAPH OF 2008-GREAT DARKIE >To: ButterflyIndia@ yahoogroups. com >Date: Sunday, 14 December, 2008, 12:19 PM > >isaac, that's a Crenulate Brownie (Allotinus drumila). this used to >be called the Crenulate Darkie (as given in Evans and other books) >but i have changed the name to "Brownie" to avoid the racist >connotations of "Darkie". your reference to the "Great Darkie" is >erroneous on two accounts; the foremost being that that name refers >to Evan's Allotinus multistrigatus, which is a junior synonym of A. >drumila; and that your butterfly is not multistrigatus even by >Evans's standard. the misidentification not withstanding, it is true >that this species (i.e., A. drumila) is listed under Schedule I of >india's Wildlife (Protection) Act. i photographed this in mizoram >last april, so we have two indian records of this rare species >within a single year! > > >At 11:09 PM +0530 12/13/08, Isaac Kehimkar wrote: > >>Dear Friends, >> > > >Got this rare butterfly in Sikkim's Butterfly Park [under >construction] at Rangrang. Protected under the Wildlife Protection >Act [1972] on Scheule 1, this dainty butterfly enjoys the same >status as the Tiger or Elephant.. > > > >Usha Lachungpa was there when we almost overlooked this butterfly >perched motionless, despite so many BNHS Members flocking to see >this rare find. > >Cheers! > >Isaac > > >-- > > >Dr. Krushnamegh Kunte > >Post-doctoral Research Fellow (Kronforst Lab) >FAS Center for Systems Biology >Harvard University >52 Oxford St >Northwest Lab Room 458.40-3 >Cambridge, MA 02138, USA. > >Ph: (617) 496-0078 >Cell: (512) 577-1370 >Fax: (617) 495-2196 >Email: [email protected]. edu or krushnamegh@ gmail.com > >Academic Website: http://www.people. fas.harvard. edu/~kunte/ >AcademicsHome. htm >General Website: http://www.people. fas.harvard. edu/~kunte/ index.htm > > > >Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! ><http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/>Invite > >them now. > > > > > >-- > >Dr. Krushnamegh Kunte > >Post-doctoral Research Fellow (Kronforst Lab) >FAS Center for Systems Biology >Harvard University >52 Oxford St >Northwest Lab Room 458.40-3 >Cambridge, MA 02138, USA. > >Ph: (617) 496-0078 >Cell: (512) 577-1370 >Fax: (617) 495-2196 >Email: [email protected]. edu or krushnamegh@ gmail.com > >Academic Website: http://www.people. fas.harvard. edu/~kunte/ >AcademicsHome. htm >General Website: http://www.people. fas.harvard. edu/~kunte/ index.htm > > > >Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! ><http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/>Invite > >them now. > > -- Dr. Krushnamegh Kunte Post-doctoral Research Fellow (Kronforst Lab) FAS Center for Systems Biology Harvard University 52 Oxford St Northwest Lab Room 458.40-3 Cambridge, MA 02138, USA. Ph: (617) 496-0078 Cell: (512) 577-1370 Fax: (617) 495-2196 Email: [email protected] or [email protected] Academic Website: http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~kunte/AcademicsHome.htm General Website: http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~kunte/index.htm --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Enjoy -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
