Hey Mike, Good afternoon. You are correct. CMEs are composed of massive particles, e.g. protons, electrons, etc. Solar flares are photons. Since photons travel at c they get here in ˜8.2 minutes, regardless of frequency. Matter particles travel sub-light and so, depending on their mass, ejection energy, & angle to the earth (curved trajectory) take ˜20 to ˜48 hours or so to get here.
Also correct regarding charged particles bringing E&M fields with them. The CME particles create B fields due to their motion since they have a net electrical charge. (Del x B ˜ J + Edot). What’s interesting is that that the orientation of the B fields in the particles couple well or not so well to our ionosphere and depending on that create strong or weak auroras. BTW, this info is new and changing since it’s an area of research. Every new probe sent to the sun deepens our understanding of the phenomena going on in the sun & how it affects us. Or even better, comes up with new solar physics. Interesting topic. 73, Stephen (W2WF) > On Jan 5, 2024, at 11:44 AM, Gary Sitton via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org> wrote: > > Mike, you're right. It's protons or hydrogen ions in the large mass ejections. > There are some photons both ionizing (x-rays and gamma rays) and visible, > but mostly hydrogen ions. > > Gary K5AMH > > On 1/5/2024 11:15 AM, Mike Knerr via BVARC wrote: >> I understood that a coronal mass ejection released protons, not photons. >> These also bring high electromagnetic fields with them. >> I understood the electromagnetic fields are causing the problems. >> Just a thought. >> Mike Knerr KI5UBL >> 73 >> >> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 10:03 AM Stephen Flowers via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org >> <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: >>> Richard, >>> Good morning and Good question. The way I understand it, solar flares emit >>> a large amount of photons at various frequencies. If these photons are >>> sufficiently energetic, then they will pass a large portion of the >>> ionosphere and impact what we refer to as the D layer. Note that the D >>> layer is a daytime ionospheric layer that according to some models in the >>> literature is made up of NO+, NO+(H2O)n, H+(H2O)n, CO3−, and O3− >>> >>> These species readily combine with free electrons that increase in numbers >>> due to the flares. This in turn results in “less refraction" of E&M waves >>> that we as amateurs need to bounce our signals off of to communicate. In a >>> nutshell, D layer constituents don’t refract as much and this is >>> interpreted as “D layer absorption”. If you look at this >>> <https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/d-region-absorption-predictions-d-rap> >>> URL you can playback a movie of the latest D layer absorption measurements. >>> During a solar storm you’ll see the bar graph in the right hand corner >>> increases across multiple frequencies. >>> >>> Note that in a solar flare event the lower frequencies are preferentially >>> impacted. >>> >>> >>> >>> Of course other layers in the ionosphere are also affected by solar flares >>> in ˜8 minutes of emission and CMEs hit us w/a delayed impact of ˜1 day or >>> so; however, you may be on to something when you say that the lower >>> frequencies suffer a bigger impact. In that case, you may be right in that >>> the higher frequencies, 20m and higher, may be the way to go for Ham radio >>> ops during solar storms. >>> >>> Thank you for bringing up this topic! >>> >>> 73, >>> Stephen (W2WF) >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 5, 2024, at 9:03 AM, David Holden via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org >>>> <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: >>>> >>>> A strong solar storm can cause a complete blackout of HF communication >>>> including the higher frequency bands. I was in a QSO a year or so ago and >>>> it just dropped as a solar storm hit. The noise floor dropped to zero as >>>> not even noise could propagate through the highly energized atmosphere. >>>> >>>> Lesser solar storms can increase noise particularly on the lower bands so >>>> 80 might be unusable while 20 might just be noisy. >>>> >>>> David WJ9O >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 4, 2024, at 10:25 PM, Richard Bonica via BVARC <bvarc@bvarc.org >>>>> <mailto:bvarc@bvarc.org>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To all, >>>>> Tell me if I am wrong on this. During these solar storms, it is my >>>>> understanding to use the higher frequency rather than lower? If so, is 20 >>>>> and 40m bands a good choice? >>>>> Thank you in advance >>>>> Richard >>>>> KG5YCU >>>>> ________________________________________________ >>>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>>>> >>>>> BVARC mailing list >>>>> BVARC@bvarc.org <mailto:BVARC@bvarc.org> >>>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>>>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bvarc@bvarc.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________________ >>>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>>> >>>> BVARC mailing list >>>> BVARC@bvarc.org <mailto:BVARC@bvarc.org> >>>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bvarc@bvarc.org/ >>> >>> ________________________________________________ >>> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >>> >>> BVARC mailing list >>> BVARC@bvarc.org <mailto:BVARC@bvarc.org> >>> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >>> Publicly available archives are available here: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/bvarc@bvarc.org/ >> >> >> ________________________________________________ >> Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club >> >> BVARC mailing list >> BVARC@bvarc.org <mailto:BVARC@bvarc.org> >> http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org >> Publicly available archives are available here: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/bvarc@bvarc.org/ > > -- > Gary Sitton, K5AMH > gasit...@comcast.net <mailto:gasit...@comcast.net> > SDR/DSP Consultant, > "Have FFTs, Will Travel." > ________________________________________________ > Brazos Valley Amateur Radio Club > > BVARC mailing list > BVARC@bvarc.org > http://mail.bvarc.org/mailman/listinfo/bvarc_bvarc.org > Publicly available archives are available here: > https://www.mail-archive.com/bvarc@bvarc.org/
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