This. On Jun 2, 2015 11:01 AM, "Maia McCormick via Callers" < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I think Ron's point is that with this set of terms (i.e. 1st/2nd corner > refers to the person rather than the position), if we're in an improper > context, we've basically circled back around to labeling the roles, only > these role labels seem unideal because they have lots of syllables and > sound relatively similar. At the point at which we're talking about "first > corner" and "second corner", isn't it less of a mouthful, easier to > understand, and easier for experienced dancers to convert into terms they > understand to have a set of terms like jets[gems]/rubies or larks/ravens? > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Perry Shafran via Callers < > callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> It's the person in that position at the start of the dance, and that >> designation stays with you throughout the dance. If you switch throughout >> the dance, then your corner designation may change. It also has meaning in >> dance terms, where larks/ravens etc are just made up names. As a matter of >> fact I'm more likely to remember my corner designation than whether I am a >> lark or a raven. >> >> Perry >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Ron Blechner <contra...@gmail.com> >> *To:* Perry Shafran <ps...@yahoo.com> >> *Cc:* Caller's discussion list <call...@sharedweight.net>; Andrea >> Nettleton <twirly-g...@bellsouth.net> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 2, 2015 8:45 AM >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling >> >> If you want to redefine "corner" as a person, not a position... >> On Jun 2, 2015 10:41 AM, "Perry Shafran via Callers" < >> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> After thinking about this I think I am starting to agree with Andrea in >> that corners (first & second) just might be the perfect term to use. In >> ECD, where most dances are proper, the first corner is gent 1 and lady 2, >> because in proper dances there are different genders on the diagonal. In >> an improper dance (most contra dances), there are same genders on the >> diagonal. So therefore the ladies would be in the first corner positions >> (same positions as in a proper English dance), and the gents are the second >> corners. In a swing, first corners end up on the right. I think by >> thinking about it this way you could do any dance, easy to challenging, >> with the corner terminology in place. Just substitute any incidence of >> "gents" in your choreography with "second corner" and "ladies" with "first >> corner". >> >> Perry >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Andrea Nettleton via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> >> *To:* Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com> >> *Cc:* "call...@sharedweight.net" <call...@sharedweight.net> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:31 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling >> >> Hey Michael, >> I think you mean that those who began the dance as first corners, will >> always end swings on the right, just as they are standing relative to their >> partner in the hands four. >> >> The dance is obscure to the dancers only to the degree the caller is >> unable to elucidate it. It may take effort for callers to learn to teach >> as effectively this way, but that doesn't make it less clear. When I >> called to the SFQCD, ninety percent of the dancers were men. Even with >> bands and bare arms, so as clear an indication of role as they could >> achieve, they struggled with who ends where after stuff. What if I could >> have given them the tool of knowing their corners, and in addition, the >> clear instruction to note carefully which hand they held when standing next >> to their partner? That would always be their connector hand when standing >> as a couple after swings, chains, and R&L thrus. The twofold active >> attention might have served them far better than the arbitrary labels. >> Understanding that the pattern of the dance depends on knowing your >> geography makes sense. Adding into that the need to remember a label >> doesn't improve the odds the geography will stick, at least it didn't >> there. In my opinion, looking for a person is less reliable than knowing >> your place in the dance. People mess up, but the place is always there. >> >> AN >> >> >> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask >> >> >> >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 4:05 AM, Michael Fuerst via Callers < >> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> Consider this dance >> >> E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati Duple Improper Michael Fuerst >> March, 1991 >> >> A1 Balance and swing neighbor. >> >> A2 Men allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner. >> >> B1 Long lines forward and back. Women chain to neighbor. >> >> B2 Women allemande right (4). >> 1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until >> neighbors on the side they started the dance (8). >> Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left along set to >> meet new >> neighbors (4). >> >> Using this thread's suggestions, I think this becomes (as long as dancers >> understand that those starting as *second corners* always end the swing on >> the right) >> >> E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati Duple Improper Michael Fuerst >> March, 1991 >> >> A1 Balance and swing neighbor. >> >> A2 *First corners* allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner. >> >> B1 Long lines forward and back. *Second corners* chain to neighbor. >> >> B2 *Second corners* allemande right (4). >> 1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until >> neighbors on the side they started the dance (8). >> Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left along set to >> meet new >> neighbors (4) >> >> This makes the dance obscure to beginning and intermediate dancers. Seems >> best to have names corresponding to the men's and women's roles, rather >> than to have dancer's determine which corners they are at any point in the >> dance. >> >> >> Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:26 AM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers < >> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> >> Actually Alan, because we dance improper most frequently, and becket >> almost as much, I think I really don't want the labels applied to people so >> they stick. I'm just using the word corner the way Brooke and Chris use >> diagonal. In contra, we already have a use for the word diagonal, meaning >> the next pair along across the set to the right or left. The corner >> reference we have is actually close to right, probably having grown out of >> triple minor dances. Right diagonal is first corner, Left diagonal is >> second. Make it fit in a hands four and you have pairs of corners along >> opposite angles. It's a place not a person. Then I can write a dance >> beginning with a second corner chain, and it will be those formerly >> identified as gents, but will work totally fine. If the dance were proper, >> you could still have a second diagonals chain and it would be one of each >> 'role'. A direct transfer of the system to contra is not as useful as >> adapting, IMHO. >> Andrea >> >> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask >> >> On Jun 2, 2015, at 3:07 AM, Winston, Alan P. <wins...@slac.stanford.edu> >> wrote: >> >> I'm not Andrea but as someone who's appreciated the value of global >> calling since Chris and Brooke proselytized our West Coast English caller >> self improvement group about it in 2000 and who regularly uses it even in >> not gender free English as well as for gender free English I think I can >> answer. >> >> The Heather and Rose style (which they didn't invent but have published >> the most in) is designed for proper longways. Men's line is left file, >> ladies line is right file. In a square or Becket formation gents place >> are first diagonals, ladies are second diagonals. Corner is reserved for >> contra corners and the immediate neighbor in a square. >> >> However, mainstream English gives us first corners (in a proper set, >> first gent and second lady) and second corners (first lady and second >> gent). If you apply that to a typical improper contra, as Andrea was >> suggesting, the ladies are on the first corners, the gents on the second >> corners. >> >> The answer to each of your questions about how she'd indicate what we >> now do with gender is to substitute a corner reference. First corners make >> a wave in the middle of the set. They back up and second corners come in. >> >> >> You'd have to decide whether the same positional reference applies to >> becket, where it would be the gents, or have the corner assignments apply >> before you becketize, which would be my preference. >> >> Does that clear it up ? >> >> Alan >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Jun 1, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers < >> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> Andrea, how would you handle the following: >> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to >> Lambertville, et all? >> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star? >> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers, >> Jurassic Redheads, etc. >> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey. >> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate? >> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't >> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways? >> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated. >> Ron >> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers" < >> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at >> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of >> global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if used, >> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only the most >> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition of >> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same >> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to >> gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for >> example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in >> those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second corners to >> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. But >> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems >> unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some folks are >> trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now. >> Cheers, >> Andrea >> >> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask >> >> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers < >> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment >> in gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis >> using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment was a >> great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings >> dance. At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several >> dancers, some were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or >> unusual about the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that >> there were more dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 >> than usual. No one I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were >> gender free. >> >> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but >> it is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to >> call gender free. >> >> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of >> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email, >> arcadia...@gmail.com. >> >> Thanks, >> Jim Hemphill >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >
