I agree with John's concerns over gripping in the forearm hold, and the increased security of the elbow cup - provided dancers are reminded that thumbs do not belong in the soft, vulnerable inside of elbows!
However, I think the full elbow cup grip gives up a certain freedom of disengagement and if we tried to use it universally would result in some awkward transitions - balance the wave to swing through for instance would be clunky with an elbow cup. A well taught hooked or flat hand (properly vertical and balanced!) hand allemande would be my preference. I'm not sure I'm clear on the "flat" grip issues - could someone give me a clear definition of what they consider to be this problematic option? Bob On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:19 AM John Sweeney via Callers < callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hmm… I seem to have stirred up a hornet’s nest! It is great to see > discussion on this important topic. > > > > There are two very different forearm holds. > > > > *** In front of the elbow ***: > > This is the MWSD version. Callerlab defines it as: > > “Forearm: The arms are held past the wrist but not past the elbow joint. > Each dancer places the hand on the inside of the arm of the person with > whom he is to work. The fingers and thumb are held in close. The center of > the turn will be at the joined arms, so, while turning, each dancer is > moving equally around the other.” > > > > I think this is what Andrea is describing (my apologies if I am wrong). > > > > I don’t like this one. Sorry. > > > > The connection is not as good as it could be. > > Good connection can often only be achieved by gripping the other person’s > arm. > > It provides the opportunity to grip hard. > > I often find that, due to different arm lengths, the gap between by thumb > and index finger is pressed against the inside of the other person’s upper > arm. This can be uncomfortable. > > > > The one I do like is: > > > > *** Behind the elbow ***: > > Put your thumb beside your fingers. Curve your hand. Place your forearms > together. Place your curved hand behind your partner’s forearm, just above > the elbow. Get close enough so that your upper arm is vertical. > > > > This is a great connection. > > There is no need to grip. > > You are close together so that you can turn really well. > > It is very effective for 1.5 turns. > > Thumbs are not involved so the chance of gripping is greatly reduced. > > It can be achieved instantaneously. > > There is little opportunity to mess it up. > > > > You can see it being used in this video: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo > > There is a good example 5 seconds in - look at the second couple on the > right (two ladies - one in grey). > > > > We use this hold for all sorts of dances in the UK. It is great for Strip > the Willow and Lock Chain Swings (i.e. Grand Right and Left where you don’t > pull by, instead you turn 1.5 times with each dancer). > > > > I would thoroughly recommend this as an alternative Allemande style. > > > > Try them and see what you think. > > > > (P.S. The really sad thing about that video Is the swings. If only the > caller had told them to take the same forearm hold and join left hands > underneath, then they could have had so much more fun swinging!) > > > > (P.P.S. I love this dance. Nottingham Swing. I spent my first 50 years > in Nottingham, so I have been dancing this dance for nearly 50 years now > and I still love it.) > > > > (P.P.P.S. The dance is actually from Northamptonshire - 50 mile south.) > > > > Happy dancing, > > John > > > > John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 > 940 574 > > http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music > Ceilidhs > > http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent > > > http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs > > > _______________________________________________ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers@lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ >
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