I was taught to sail in So Cal with many a trip to Catalina Isle this was before such convenience as GPS and Loran was well out of most budgets. We had no choice sailing the coast or out to the islands could take you well into dark so you had better know your sailing area, sea conditions and your boat. every once in awhile you would run into fog it sucked but there was only one thing to do sail the best you can in conditions I missed the entrance to Dana point by about 2 yards. I would not give up that experience for anything I had a good instructor.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: catalina27-talk: GPSDate: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:37:38 -0800 I also concur on DR. I spent years on SF Bay running DR courses on bright sunny days for the odd occasion when DR competency would pay off. I used a Loran-C as the answer book and learned well how to interpret the bays Tide Log Charts over time. Near the end of a club cruise one Thanksgiving weekend all we had to do was beat an impending storm and cross from Pier 39 to Richmond Bay Marina. Looking at the Gate we had it beat but a 100 - 200 yards out Pier 39 Coit Tower took a lightning strike. We’d timed very poorly indeed. I sent the family to the safest positions for a strike we could think of but on the way down the companion way my son hit the off button on the Loran C. It would never get a lock if the motor was running so I had my choice of stopping the motor to see if Loran C would re-lock in the storm or running DR. I chose DR and took a sighting on a shipping lane buoy ahead. About then the rain hit with a vengeance and we were whited out in the shipping lanes off Pier 39. No Land or other boats in sight I ran for my first point. When the buoy came into view I got myself out of the shipping lane and then plotted a new course for the next in a sequence of buoys the would lead me up the edge of the shipping lane until I could make a clear cut to the entrance at Richmond. There’s a shoal with a trench behind it (forgot the name) so I could navigate back on compass and depth sounder. I missed the Richmond entrance by 50 feet but had enough visibility to correct in time. The remained of the fleet, which included my brother, missed the entrance by a mile. They had all stored a waypoint in the harbor but not the harbor entrance and loran-C led them far astray. So yes, learn to actually navigate. Use the GPS as the answer book. Pick a destination, DR to get there, and then check to see how far off you are with the GPS. You’ll learn both but don’t rely solely on the GPS until it’s a simple convenience item. Once you have DR down you’ll even question the GPS if depths don’t coincide with what you’re expecting. Phil Agur - my NTrak Odds & Ns Capitol City N-Trak - All DCC - Sacramento, CA Mid Century N- California - SP, WP, SF, UP, TWS, and others. -----Original Message-----From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of michael mcveySent: Friday, December 14, 2007 3:07 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: catalina27-talk: GPS OK time for me to weigh in I have no GPS and the last nav aid I owned was loran C. I believe that GPS is a great option and an asset for most but if you do not know DR you can and most likely will get into trouble. As nice of an aid as they are nothing can replace good old seamanship! I only say this since we do have a few new sailors on this talkring and would like to see what they can add in the future so by all means get a GPS but also know dead reckoning it could save you allot of headaches or worse Phil is correct that some companies will use maps instead of charts witch is not that big of a deal on the S.F Bay but should you get close to the east side there are alot of shoals and shallows not to mention old piers and sunken boats. In other words you don't always get what is advertised best of luck in your hunt for a GPS. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: catalina27-talk: GPSDate: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:54:52 -0800 I tend to get on a rant when it comes to GPS. They are not all created the same and it appears the most popular are the worst functionality wise and many models represent an actual hazard to mariners. The GPS suppliers get a little cagey by making up terminology regarding what they supply that they get to define reality leaving any collisions with uncharted islands the mariners fault. So what do I have and where is it mounted. Mine is a Standard Horizon CP150 (no longer available, as far as I can tell) on a fixed mount at the wheel. The current low end is a CP180. Since it runs in either north up or forward up modes have it fixed gets very handy. I know it’s a tiller boat question, so I’d say the bulkhead. The caveat mariners ran into in the past was the source of the charts supplied in the non-marine professional marine GPS units was from a map database not a chart database. They determined position with good accuracy, did waypoints fine, would leave electronic bread crumbs, and would direct you home down the return path. When I warned Nicky, an avid ocean small boat angler, on a Friday afternoon about his new Garmin GPS on his new boat he scoffed (Nicky was a younger bright engineer at Intel) but on Tuesday he was a little more humble. Nicky tore the I/O drive out of his new boat Saturday. He set electronic bread crumbs at high tide on the way out as he passed over a line of rocks that would be shoaling rocks at low tide. On the way back in the uncharted (uncharted on his, charted on mine) rocks waited for him just under the surface. When I taught an intro to navigation Nicky’s plight was always included. I also included the story of three boats that didn’t want to hang with the main group of boats on a whale watch cruise out of Monterey, CA. They chose to sneak off to Stillwater Cover in Carmel, lost track of time and returned well after dark. All three skippers were running without charts and guessing their position by shore lights. When asked they said it was no big deal and estimated they were a good half mile offshore. The good news is they all three made it back the bad news is their path took them in close proximity to a rock pinnacle that shoals a half mile off shore at low tide. It’s like 50 feet wide at its base and 70 tall and only about 8 feet in diameter when it breaks the surface. It’s not on any map based GPS. Map based GPS units besides missing all depth data only show obstructions big enough to contain a road. The fun one around SF Bay was to have them look for Alcatraz Island. Not there! After some years is was added so I had them look for Red Rocks, again not there. Actually there literally dozens of un-mapped hazards on SF bay that are clearly charted on the real charts. Besides a true marine GPS having charts, some of them are using a chart database and not just a chart image. My GPS, and I would assume the newer Standard Horizon GPS units as well, can have an alarm set for depth out in front of the boat. Yes while you’re giving instructions on the next tack it is looking at its internal chart database and based on the depth and distance you preset will sound an alarm before you reach the obstruction. A chart reading forward looking alarm beats the heck out a dumb straight down depth alarm. In the case of the rock pinnacle you’d be telling your wife to grab the ditch bag if you relied on a dumb straight down depth alarm. It’s also pretty important since my GPS will directly send command to my Autohelm. The more automated things get the more you can do but the less oversight actually goes on. Here’s automation that checks my work even when I get tired. Another feature on Standard Horizon GPS units is they interface directly with your Standard Horizon DSC VHF. When you hit the digital Mayday key on the VHF it automatically sends your ID, GPS location, and type of emergency. Actually most any GPS with a NEMA0183 interface can do that, but on my boat if I receive a DSC mayday is automatically plotted on my GPS as a waypoint and highlighted. Before I even pick up the Ram Mic to reply I can plot a course and estimate an arrival time on scene in the GPS. Don’t you wish the CG had just bought the right GPS and radio combo back in the 90s instead of the system we are all still waiting to see deployed beyond a few test zones? Wow for under a $1000 they can receive a DSC distress signal and plot it’s position without human intervention and head directly there. To review GPS is good, the right one will save your life, making it great. 1. Fixed mount trumps hand held so the display can be used forward as up. It helps keep you oriented correctly when fatigued in low light. 2. GPS must be chart based, showing water depth, and submerged obstructions. How about a field of submerged dols? 3. A great GPS can use chart data to sound an alarm on depth in your path. 4. A great GPS will plot distress calls automatically so we can assist mariners in distress, when we are in a position to do so. My brother was a real Garmin fan but when he prepped his IP38 for Mexico I made him a custom mount for a CP150 at the wheel. It was still performing flawlessly after a year when I joined him in Cabo for the bash up to San Diego. I used it to steer around sea mounts coming up the coast and we logged a consistently smother passage than the boats we were traveling with us who ran straight lines. So yes at the wheel not down below. Ok, but I did warn you about the rant. I’m not saying it must be Standard Horizon, but don’t buy a unit with less features today than the one I mounted in ten years ago. And don’t trust a salesman; have him show you the features. It’s your boat and you’ll be the one out there when things go wrong. Phil Agur s/v Wing Tip Secretary/Treasurer Call Sign WCW3485 IC27/270A MMSI 366901790 www.catalina27.org Vessel Doc# 1039809 -----Original Message-----From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Friday, December 14, 2007 8:49 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: catalina27-talk: GPS On a tiller C27, where do you all mount your GSP chartplotter ... or do you prefer a handheld (my family is collaborating to buy me something useful for Christmas rather than ......... well, I'll leave it there). Tom Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! Check it out! _________________________________________________________________ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
