Judy, Thank you so much. That is exactly the discussion I was looking for. In most of these boating projects there is always the ideal way and there is the way we all end up doing it... sometimes ideal, sometimes a bit short of ideal, but always we get to use our creative thinking. I'll let you know how my way turns out.
Brad ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Blumhorst, DC To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:36 PM Subject: Re: catalina27-talk: Mounting outboard bracket Hi Brad, Yes, there is a void between the aft wall of the wet locker (lazraette) and the exterior transom panel. And yes, if you thru bolt an OB bracket to the stern, with the backing plate inside the lazarette, everything will flex. So what to do? There's an ideal way to add an OB bracket... and then there's the way I installed the OB bracket onto Bijou's stern -- The method I chose is a compromise, not ideal. Bijou has a working inboard A4 so she doesn't need a full time OB; the OB bracket is for a backup/emergency use. Also, I wanted a removeable/mountable OB so I could use a swim ladder in the mount. An ideal installation for an OB bracket would include the following a.. cutting out the "liner" of the wet locker (lazarrette) that is adjacent to the transom, b.. filling the void with a core and bonding the core to the two skins. Binding a core inbetween the two skins creates a very strong, flex-resistant composite panel.(kind of like a beam, wherein one side of the beam is in compression while the other is in tension) c.. Install a backing plate inside the lazarett, making sure it's curved to match the interior panel of the lazarette. That would provide additional resistance to flexing. d.. Make anti-compression bushings (either tubes or fiberglass plugs). e.. Through-bolt the OB bracket on the transom, using the compression posts or bushings. However, I didn't want to miss any more sailing time by cutting out the liner to the lazarette and installing a core, and then reglassing the lazarette. So.... Bijou's OB bracket system has the following features: a.. A thick, flex resistant exterior mounting SS plate on the transom. The platre is curved to match the curve of the transom. It is 1/4" (?? - I don't quite recall, but it's really hefty) and has a bigger footprint than the OB bracket bolting pattern. b.. An interiour SS backing plate inside the lazarette is the same size as the exterior one (bigger than the OB bracket. (I can't remember if I had to curve it to match the contour of the lazarette). the plates distribute the forces from the OB bracket to a larger area than otherwise possible. The plates were put in place with sikaflex sealant. c.. There are 8 thru-bolts which attach the exterior mounting plate to the interior plate. d.. Holes were drilled for the 8 thru bolts and metal compression tubes/bushings were epoxied in place,. The bushings were cut to the exact length of distance between the exterior and interior plates. The tubes prevent compression of the fiberglass panels. The tubes were epoxied in place with thickened epoxy (The hope is that the compression tubes will also provide some resistance to sheering forces, similar to the way a cored panel acts. e.. Everything was assembled with SikaFlex 291 LOT and tightened f.. http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/outboard-bracket.htm So far, it's holding up. If I were going to permanently use an OB, I'd probably cut out the inner skin (the lazarette's aft wall) and fill in the void with foam core, and then reglass. It's not that big a job, especially since the cosmetics aren't important inside the laz. Gotta run, Judy B ----- Original Message ----- From: iicaptbrad To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:33 PM Subject: Fw: catalina27-talk: Mounting outboard bracket Hey all, I'm not sure if this is the right email address, but I checked out Judy B's website on the restoration of the Bijou and thought you might be able to help. I've outlined my problem below and looked at the neat job you did on mounting an outboard motor bracket on Bijou. I still have the question of how you dealt with the lazarett lining. It looks like you even secured some bolts below the lazarett. I assume you did that when you had the whole area open when you were reinforcing the traveler mounting. The bracket I'm mounting is the massive Garelick 15 1/2" verticle lift model which you can see in the West Marine catalogue. I'd just like to drill and bolt the thing with a substantial backing plate, but the lazarett liner for that aft compartment is in the way. What do you think of my suggestions below? Or how would you go about it without removing too much of the boat. Thanks for your help. If this isn't the email address for Judy B, could you please forward? By the way, I notice the Bijou is from Alameda and you used Svendsen's Boatyard for some work. I was born and raised in Alameda for 18 years. I call San Diego my home port now, but have fond memories of navigating my Sea Snark and our family's Lightning sailboat, Altair, up and down the estuary for many years. ----- Original Message ----- From: michael mcvey To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Mounting outboard bracket I would drill and mount you may want to contact Judy B or look at her site she did it and did a nice job of it too! As for sailing with out a motor you now know who the real sailor is in your marina I doubt that others there can say the same. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: catalina27-talk: Mounting outboard bracket Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:44:24 -0700 Hey All, There seems to be some pretty good advice here between all you folks... lots of years of experience between you all. Well, I have project which I'm trying to weigh the best way to tackle. I've researched it a bit online by going through past forum discussions, but havn't quite found the answer. I've got a 1976 Catalina-27 which I recently aquired which has been through a hard life, at least in recent years. The Atomic 4 is frozen, and although I've had it out sailing several times (sails great) its rather embarrassing leaving the dock with no auxilary power. I can sail into my upwind slip fine with only the jib, but you probalby know there is alot of lateral movement before before speed and steerage occurs while leaving the dock.... embarrassing in my close quartered marina. So, I weighed the options of fixing the A4 or getting an outboard. I chose the outboard route to get me sailing. I chose the Tohatsu 9.9 with 25" shaft and got a heavy duty bracket. Now I'm contemplating mounting it with a sturdy backing plate. The only problem is in the rear compartment which is a separate mold and leaves about a 1/2" space between the inside surface of the transom and the compartment molding. If I bolt the backing plate inside the compartment it would squeeze the two figerglass surfaces together with who knows what results. My options as I see it are the following: 1) Idealy I want to slide a nice piece of wood between the compartment liner and the transom then mount hte backing plate insoide the aft compartment, but I can't get back inside with the A4 still there and really don't know if I could slide some wood in if I can get back there. I know I should pull the A4 first then proceed. But I'm impatient and besides, I'm going to have a yard pull the engine and it would be easier if I could power my way to the yard. 2) Put the backing plate inside the aft compartment, tighten the bolts and see what happens. I can't imagine that would make a firm instalation and would probably crack something. 3) Cut a big hole in the aft compartment and mount the backing plate directly to the transom. I don't think I have the right saw for that.... can't seem to visualize what I would need. 4) The method I am leaning toward is to drill a few holes in the aft compartment liner and squirt in a bunch of that construction foam and let that dry and then mount the backing plate inside the compartment. I'm not sure if the foam would be hard enough to withstand the compression or if it would hold up over time, but it seems that would beef up the whole transom mounting area. Does anyone have any experience with mounting an outboard bracket under these circumstances? And how did you do it? Am I even considering the right things or is there something I'm missing? Thanks for your help, gang. And sorry for the wordy message. Brad ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. IM on your terms. IM on your terms. Go to Site Search the Web ----- Original Message ---- From: iicaptbrad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 10:39:51 PM Subject: Re: catalina27-talk: Mounting outboard bracket Thanks for the advice. I checked out the website and it does look like a neat installation. I assume they must have bolted the bracket when the lazarett lining was out when reinforcing the traveler mounting. That's one way of doing it, but I didn't want to remove large pieces of the boat... or at least wasn't anticipating doing that. I sent an email to to the address on the website, but that evidentially isn't a good one anymore. You got an email address for Judy B? Brad ----- Original Message ----- From: michael mcvey To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Mounting outboard bracket I would drill and mount you may want to contact Judy B or look at her site she did it and did a nice job of it too! As for sailing with out a motor you now know who the real sailor is in your marina I doubt that others there can say the same. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: catalina27-talk: Mounting outboard bracket Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:44:24 -0700 Hey All, There seems to be some pretty good advice here between all you folks... lots of years of experience between you all. Well, I have project which I'm trying to weigh the best way to tackle. I've researched it a bit online by going through past forum discussions, but havn't quite found the answer. I've got a 1976 Catalina-27 which I recently aquired which has been through a hard life, at least in recent years. The Atomic 4 is frozen, and although I've had it out sailing several times (sails great) its rather embarrassing leaving the dock with no auxilary power. I can sail into my upwind slip fine with only the jib, but you probalby know there is alot of lateral movement before before speed and steerage occurs while leaving the dock.... embarrassing in my close quartered marina. So, I weighed the options of fixing the A4 or getting an outboard. I chose the outboard route to get me sailing. I chose the Tohatsu 9.9 with 25" shaft and got a heavy duty bracket. Now I'm contemplating mounting it with a sturdy backing plate. The only problem is in the rear compartment which is a separate mold and leaves about a 1/2" space between the inside surface of the transom and the compartment molding. If I bolt the backing plate inside the compartment it would squeeze the two figerglass surfaces together with who knows what results. My options as I see it are the following: 1) Idealy I want to slide a nice piece of wood between the compartment liner and the transom then mount hte backing plate insoide the aft compartment, but I can't get back inside with the A4 still there and really don't know if I could slide some wood in if I can get back there. I know I should pull the A4 first then proceed. But I'm impatient and besides, I'm going to have a yard pull the engine and it would be easier if I could power my way to the yard. 2) Put the backing plate inside the aft compartment, tighten the bolts and see what happens. I can't imagine that would make a firm instalation and would probably crack something. 3) Cut a big hole in the aft compartment and mount the backing plate directly to the transom. I don't think I have the right saw for that.... can't seem to visualize what I would need. 4) The method I am leaning toward is to drill a few holes in the aft compartment liner and squirt in a bunch of that construction foam and let that dry and then mount the backing plate inside the compartment. I'm not sure if the foam would be hard enough to withstand the compression or if it would hold up over time, but it seems that would beef up the whole transom mounting area. Does anyone have any experience with mounting an outboard bracket under these circumstances? And how did you do it? Am I even considering the right things or is there something I'm missing? Thanks for your help, gang. And sorry for the wordy message. Brad ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. IM on your terms.
