Will cold beer work to keep the bits from welding themselves into place in the holes?? The spilled kind of course . . . . . .
George ----- Original Message ----- From: David Shaddock To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:55 PM Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Keel bolts There are a couple of old tricks for drilling lead that someone might try next time out. One is a tip I got from a 1935 magazine for mechanics, and it involves flooding the hole with water-plenty of water, which both cools the bit and lets chips (even lead chips) float out up the flutes more readily and get out of the hole rather than clogging things up. (By the way, in my bandsaw and milling machines I use a coolant additive that is made for drilling and cutting; I add water to it and keep it circulating, and when I'm done it's biodegradable. I buy it from J&L Industrial) The other tip is more commonly used-start the hole with a traditional twist-drill bit, pulling it up frequently to clear any chips and dip it in ICE water to cool it. (The biggest problem is that the bit gets hot enough to weld itself into the hole and then, of course, it breaks off). After the hole is down about ½-3/4 inches, switch to a good sharp masonry bit, one with sharp flutes made of carbide. This will only contact the hole at the extreme edges of the cutting flutes; there is plenty of clearance on the sides for the chip flutes. Again, pull this bit frequently and dip it in ice water. Don't let it get too hot in the hole, because you don't want to crack the carbide with thermal shock. The sharper the bit is, the less heat you'll generate; a lot of heat is carried away by the chips, too. I used to drill a lot of copper in my machine shop and the only way to keep the bits from welding themselves into the holes was to constantly flush with water-based coolant. We used a small recirculating pump made for the purpose. I suppose you could do the same thing in a bilge, and considering how much time and expense is involved in drilling these holes and removing broken bits, it may be worth the trouble. But you could also just use an assistant to keep pouring a thin stream of cold water into the hole as you drill. Dave Shaddock From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Calleran Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: catalina27-talk: Keel bolts Mike, I thought I'd write to give you an update on my SS Lag Screw progress. I put in 3 screws - which I got from the source you suggested. I tried to drill the holes with a bit I bought at Lowes. It broke about an inch below the surface of the bilge, leaving the fluted portion embedded in the hole. I filled it with epoxy and started anew a couple of inches aft. I went online to shop for a higher quality bit than I could get at local hardware stores, which I found at HermansCentral.com: 18" w/extra long flutes. The longer flutes, and lots of cutting oil, really made a huge difference in drilling. As fate would have it, that bit also broke where the flutes met the straight shaft. Fortunately, the hole was deep enough and the break was well above the bilge floor so I was able to extract it. I took the advice of another listee and drilled the top 3" at 1/2" rather than 3/8" to accommodate the shaft portion of the lag screw. Using a torque wrench and gooping on Tef-Gel, I got the screws sunk in about 40 minutes each - taking little rest stops along the way. Cost: 4 SS screws and washers (used 3) 11.66 ea; total w/shipping - 46.85 Drill bit 13.00; shipping, more than the bit; total - 26.15 Cutting oil (still have half a bottle) - 8.99 So the grand total outlay (I already had Tef-Gel) was $82; a lot less than the $280 that Catalina Direct wanted. Thanks for your counsel. Fair Winds, Jim Calleran, C27 #2784, Trad, OB Mathews Yacht Club, VA 37°27.8'N/76°18.6'W --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Mike Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Mike Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: catalina27-talk: Keel bolts To: [email protected] Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 11:25 AM I installed a single lag screw in mine....as a precautionary measure. Here is a site where you can get 316 8" SS lag screws. http://www.manasquanfasteners.com/lag_screws_1_2 You'll also need a long 3/8 drill bit...the drilling is easy...just be sure to drill a perpendicular hole and periodically withdraw the bit to clean the hole of debris. You should also use tef-gel to coat the lag screw to prevent dissimilar metal reaction between the lead and the SS. Oh, by the way, are you sure you have a lead keel....it could be iron in which case a lag screw won't work. I think many of the older c27's had iron ballast. I tested mine by running a large magnet along the side of the keel when it was on the hard....of course lead is not magnetic. As for driving the screw...it's very slow going.....and the hole needs to re-drilled often to clear out the debris created by the screw as the threads strip away the lead. I'd estimate it took me almost 2 hours for one screw. I actually took a non-SS screw of the same size and filed the tip of it to create a sharp self-taping edge and that helped significantly but it was still slow going. Mike Provost _/) ----- Original Message ----- From: James Calleran To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: catalina27-talk: Keel bolts Listees, After a, ahem, hard grounding, my Catalina smile has reappeared (last seen 6-7 years ago) - not badly, but a thin line at the keel joint is visible on one side. The boatyard service manager has recommended re-torque-ing the keel bolts. Naturally, the yard will do the job for a fee, though I don't have a quote. I'm concerned about these 30 yr-old bolts breaking off under 60+ ft-lbs of torque. Any of you who have done this yourselves: 1. How did you clean off the accumulated rust (They were rusty, right)? 2. Were you able to budge the nuts? 3. Did you remove them -one at a time, of course - and clean the threads? 4. Did you replace with stainless nuts? 5. What torque? For those who have installed SS Lag Bolts in your keel. 1. Did you buy the $279.95 kit from Catalina Direct? (5 bolts, 1 drill bit, washers) 2. What size is the drill bit? 3. Did drilling require a rotary hammer type drill, or just a powerful standard drill? I have source of SS 1/2" x 8" SS lag bolts @ 14.95 each. Specs say 18-8 stainless; no mention of 316. Thoughts on using these? Thanks for comments on your experience. Fair Winds, Jim Calleran, C27 #2784, Trad, OB Mathews Yacht Club, VA 37°27.8'N/76°18.6'W
