Hello again Phil. I haven't any plans to start a circum-navigation this week, but your last post has me wondering. What items are on that list? I'd really like to know so I can compare my boat and see where she stands. The p.o. took great care of her, and did some upgrades, but I would love to see just how much he did, and consider finishing off that list! Thanks!
Kevin M. Morton S/V Serenity #1920 _/)_ --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Phil A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Phil A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Hull speed To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 12:54 PM HI Kevin, Yes the got heavier and better made. There are a number of things that Catalina learned (and maybe sailing in general learned), some emerging boat building standards, and some Coast Guard Safety regulations all in the mix of why this occurred. Serenity maybe bullet proof but it would not be because of how she was built alone but how she’s been cared for and upgraded over the years. I believe there are 13 specific items to check on an older C27. That still doesn’t make it circumnavigation ready as the one well documented C27 to circumnavigate had 40 modifications. Catalina does learn so you can find all 40 of the modifications addressed in the base design of the C270. Just to make it fun, the best Catalinas to race are the older ones sporting the technology upgrades to beef them up. Racing sail boats, like other forms of racing, is a good way to prove technology so we can say nothing appears to be weak about an older well maintained and upgraded C27. Phil Agur s/v Wing Tip (C270 LE) Secretary, Call Sign WCW3485 IC27/270A MMSI 366901790 www.catalina27.org Vessel Doc# 1039809 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Morton Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 12:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Hull speed Hi Phil. Did I read you right, that Catalina's construction got HEAVIER as they went on? Conventional wisdom is that older fiberglass boats were built heavier as it wasn't generally known how durable glass was going to be. I have a 1974 C-27 and I think of her as being nearly bullet proof, but then again, I am brand new to this endeavour. Kevin M. Morton S/V Serenity #1920 _/)_ --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Phil A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Phil A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Hull speed To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 9:11 AM Art, The various models all went through the same generational changes as Catalina Yachts matured. There is a generational weight factor as construction got more solid, but there is also some issues in how Catalina specifies displacement. I expect the actual displacement to be 12 – 15% above the data sheet. Serious racers often go through a period of trading hulls seeking out a light one and then beef it up with technology. Serious cruisers buy the newer heavier constructed models. Phil Agur s/v Wing Tip Secretary, Call Sign WCW3485 IC27/270A MMSI 366901790 www.catalina27.org Vessel Doc# 1039809 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil A Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 8:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Hull speed Art, The whole point was to supply the weight sensitive hull speed formula not to supply another arbitrary number. Of course no one should be using an assumed factory weight but get a real weight. BTW 6850 yields 6.52 knots. Phil Agur s/v Wing Tip Secretary, Call Sign WCW3485 IC27/270A MMSI 366901790 www.catalina27.org Vessel Doc# 1039809 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of HERRICK Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: catalina27-talk: Hull speed What kind of boat do you have that weighs only 5700 lb? My '84 displaces 6850 lb, w/ M-18 Diesel. I heard that the disp. grew over the years, but 1150 lb. is a big jump! Art Herrick #5468 Sea Change ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil A To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 3:53 PM Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Hull speed That's consistent with my wife's record of 8.4 knots on Wing Tip. Broad reach in 25 -30 knots with no sea. Of course that's nothing compared to my 85 when the CHP just shook his head. Instead of using 1.34 a C27 uses a factor more like 1.5 resulting in a 6.92 knot hull speed. Disp. = 5700 Lbs. LWL= 21.75 Ft. Dave Gerr - The Nature of Boats D/L = 247 Eq #1: D/L=(weight/2240)/(0.01 * LWL)^3 S/L = 1.49 Eq#2: S/L = 8.26/(D/L)^0.311 Adv. Hull Speed= 6.94 Knots Eq#3: Hullspeed = S/L * LWL^0.5 Traditional HS= 6.25 Knots Assumes S/L= 1.34 And of course TF may have been dogging it since square root of 34.5 (LWL) x 1.5 = 8.81 kn. If the J Boat hull was higher tech than a typical Catalina then reduced weight could force it higher. I know I may be stretching my credibility here but I didn’t write the book. Remember Pyewacket didn’t shatter Merlin’s 12 year Tran Pac record until they had a computerized Polar performance program nagging the crew when they were slow. And then they shaved off a full day. A full day! Just knowing you’re slow is a major part of the battle to win. Never settle for traditional hull speed again unless you’re sailing a traditional construction boat. Phil Agur s/v Wing Tip Secretary, Call Sign WCW3485 IC27/270A MMSI 366901790 www.catalina27.org Vessel Doc# 1039809 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Hull speed or slightly above hull speed... was on a J122 today and (just very slightly cracked off) saw 8.4 knots, upwind in a 15 kn breeze. hull speed plus tf pix and it happened square root of 34.5 (LWL) x 1.34 = 7.88 kn > > Weight maters but I'll have to hunt for the advanced hull speed formula. > > Phil Agur s/v Wing Tip > Secretary, Call Sign WCW3485 > IC27/270A MMSI 366901790 > www.catalina27.org Vessel Doc# 1039809
