Hi Gary, That's correct. The state has long reserved to itself the sole authority to regulate hunting. In the case of waterfowl hunting at Stewart Park, the state authority trumps any interpretation of the city ordinance that would ban hunting on or in the state-owned waters of the lake, even those waters that are described as comprising part of the park.
However, the present incident involved hunters bringing firearms into Stewart Park in trucks, parking there, and carrying the firearms through the city-owned grounds of the park. With respect to that activity, the city ordinance does not appear to conflict with any state hunting regulations, so the city may well be within its rights to prohibit firearms on dry land there. And that would seem to be just what the IPD finally told the three hunters: go around and launch from Treman Marine Park, to avoid running afoul of the enforceable part of the city ordinance. -Geo On Nov 13, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Gary Kohlenberg <jg...@cornell.edu> wrote: > When this issue was discussed last year Alicia Plotkin had apparently done > research on court rulings applicable to this. Begging her indulgence I copied > the response to Geo below in 2014. > > In 2005 the Ithaca City Court ruled that only the State of New York can > regulations activities in or on Cayuga Lake because the State has retained > its rights to regulate the lake. The court cited a Court of Appeals case > that ruled on jurisdiction over activity in Canandaigua Lake. (The Court of > Appeals is the highest court in NYS.) So the courts already have looked at > the question of jurisdiction over the lake and ruled against the application > of an ordinance enacted by municipalities or authorities to anything > happening in or on Cayuga Lake. The City Court ruling was in the context of > an off leash dog swimming in the south end of the lake, and the court threw > out the case against the dog owner, saying the leash law didn't apply in > Cayuga Lake because the State has no leash law. The same logic would apply > to the City's firearm ordinance if someone tried to ticket or arrest a hunter > working in or on the lake. > > Alicia > > > > On 1/8/2015 8:13 AM, Geo Kloppel wrote: > > I guess the courts have the final say on the validity of Ithaca's > > ordinance. Concern about the cost and risks associated with jurisdictional > > disputes may be explanation enough for the lack of enforcement heretofore. > > But if the city begins to enforce its "No Hunting" ordinance, then DEC will > > have to decide whether to accept the situation or challenge it. > > > > I wonder if there's a patch for this conflict available under ECL 11-0321, > > which authorizes DEC to set up "Restricted Areas" for a variety of > > purposes, including protection of public health and safety. Kayaked > > disrupting the hunt could pose a public safety concern... > > > > -Geo > > > From: bounce-119893064-3493...@list.cornell.edu > [mailto:bounce-119893064-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of bob mcguire > Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 11:41 AM > To: dave nutter <nutter.d...@mac.com> > Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L <cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu>; rmann...@twcny.rr.com > Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] guns at Stewart Park > > Thanks, Dave, for staying with this. The City code is clear: > > No person shall carry, transport or possess any firearm of any nature in the > park, but this section shall not apply to duly constituted peace officers. > Limited use of archery equipment, supervised as part of a program provided by > the Ithaca Youth Bureau, shall be exempt from this provision. > > > Chapter 336 (Parks and Recreation), Section II (Stewart Park) > > Bob McGuire > On Nov 12, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.d...@mac.com> wrote: > > > This afternoon I was enjoying Stewart Park - the Cayuga Waterfront Trail, the > Fuertes Sanctuary (swan pond), the birds on the lake - as I often do. As I > walked clockwise around the pond and came out from the Fuertes Sanctuary path > near the lakeshore and toward the park road, I came face to face with 3 guys > carrying guns and dragging a small boat. I took a couple photos on my phone > (I've been practicing lately, but they weren't very good) and I told them > they weren't allowed to have guns in Stewart Park. They said lots of law > enforcement agencies had been called on them before, which sort of > contradicts what they also said about me being the only one who has given > them a problem, and they were told it was okay if the guns weren't loaded. I > said the ban was in the City Code, and maybe those police hadn't read that > part. They were skeptical. They said they'd seen guys walk right out and > shoot waterfowl from Stewart Park. I said I would've tried to stop those > guys, too. They didn't want to leave, but seemed to think that having police, > who had agreed with them before, resolve the issue would get me out of their > hair. So I called 911 and explained the situation. The guys in camo agreed to > wait for the cops, although meanwhile they did put their guns back in their > pick-up trucks. That was nice, since kids were arriving next to them for > rowing practice at the Cascadilla Boathouse, although I think the kids were > unaware of what was going on. Also I was pretty uncomfortable confronting > people with guns while waiting for police (also with guns) to tell me I was > wrong. The guys asked me if I had been waiting for them. I said, no, I was > just here a lot. A short while later IPD showed up in the form of a friendly > woman who was smaller than the smallest of the 3 guys, and a lot smaller than > the largest, who was considerably bigger than me. She seemed inclined to let > them proceed, then took my ID info, and said I could leave. I didn't say that > I had been enjoying the park and intended to continue. Instead I said I'd > like to stay for the outcome, that I thought guns were banned in Stewart Park > by the City Code, and if that's the case I'd like to see it enforced. She > said she had to look it up, then took the guys' IDs, and got back in her > cruiser to consult her computer monitor. Another IPD officer, a man, pulled > up, got out, and stood by her window, not talking to me or the gun guys. > After awhile she came out, gave the guys back their IDs and told them they > had to go. I didn't hear their whole conversation but she gestured toward the > boat ramp at Treman and they nodded and said they wouldn't park here anymore, > although I bet they'll set up within conversational distance of the path > around Fuertes. She then came over to me and repeatd their story of being > told before that what they were doing was okay. I think that was my > opportunity to insist they be ticketed, but I didn't. I thanked the officer > for looking up the law, but she credited the other officer. After the cops > drove off, the leader of the guys, the big one, said I had won today, but if > this happened again they'd call the cops on me for harassing them. I asked, > if what happens? No answer to that. > > So it has been established, at least among six people, that you are not > allowed to bring your gun into Stewart Park, not even if you plan to shoot > the ducks and geese. I wish I had also asked the officers to look up the > boundaries of Stewart Park in the City Code, because Stewart Park extends > north to the City Limit, which is a considerable distance out in the lake. > > A lot of Buffleheads went about their business. > > If you see a maroon Ford pickup 71642 KA or a dark gray Silverado pickup GTL > 7095 parked in Stewart Park while there are gunners in camo standing in the > water nearby, perhaps with a small boat for their stuff, you can ask IPD to > talk to them about whterh they brought their guns through the park after > being told not to. > --Dave Nutter > > -- > Cayugabirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- > > -- > Cayugabirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- > -- > Cayugabirds-L List Info: > Welcome and Basics > Rules and Information > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > Archives: > The Mail Archive > Surfbirds > BirdingOnThe.Net > Please submit your observations to eBird! > -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
