It all depends on what one means by a computer that one could do useful things on. A fellow named Tom Pittman wrote a 4004 assembler that ran on the SIM4-01 board, using a teletype's tape reader as the source code and the intermediate output for the 2 pass assembler. This assembler was released, through Intel, in the 4004 manual listed below. I understand the assembler was used to write the code for a mailing list program. While the ASR33 is not the best editing machine, some scissors, a splicing block and tape could do the needed editing of paper tape. The assembler also had the ability to stop and edit the tape being punched while assembling. I'd say that having an assembler would be sufficient to call it a general purpose computer. Although, one didn't normally connect the 4004 up to program RAM, it could be done as was done on the MOD4 development system. The 4004 was generally intended to run code from ROMs and use RAM for temporary data. That doesn't mean it never had RAM for program space. I don't know what the Comstar systems had but Tom Pittman didn't let not having a computer to work on stop him from using the 4004 as a computer. Dwight
________________________________ From: Steve Lewis via cctalk <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2025 8:01 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <[email protected]> Cc: Steve Lewis <[email protected]> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Comstar Computer Systems System 4 Intel 4004 based Industrial Computer At VCF West (Mountain View) in 2021, there was a demonstration of using a 4004 in a weighing machine and cash register. I'm not sure if there was modern make or referenced prior equipment. On Tue, May 13, 2025 at 8:58 AM Christian Liendo via cctalk < [email protected]> wrote: > Back in Nov of 2023 Ed Sharpe asked the following: “Was there ever a > COMPUTER using a 4004 that you could really do something or did that > finally arrive with the 8008” > > https://classiccmp.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/LYKGFANNPN6S75X3IUEZVFDRVPD5MQKF/ > > I hope to answer that question, or at least spark a discussion. > > For a number of years now I have been researching this computer called > a Comstar System 4 which is based on the Intel 4004. The Comstar > Corporation of Minneapolis was a developer of microcomputer control > and automation systems and in 1972 released the System 4 > microcomputer. Comstar built a general purpose capable computer that > could be programmed to do a multitude of tasks but their market focus > was industrial automation. Comstar was eventually bought by Warner & > Swasey in 1974 to integrate their computers into the Warner & Swasey > product line. Warner & Swasey was a huge manufacturer of industrial > machines. So they bought Comstar to be their Computer division. In > fact it was called " Warner & Swasey Comstar Microcomputer Electronic > Products" Warner and Swasey also licensed the Micral N to do the same > and we call the Micral N a computer. The Micral N was designed for > process control, but we know of it as a computer. > > Now before anyone argues about if this is a computer or not, I will > state the following. > > It was called a Microcomputer in the ACM titled "Development of a > portable compiler for industrial microcomputer systems " > It was called a Microcomputer in Electronics Magazine July 11th 1974 > It was listed as a Microcomputer in "Auerbach Guide to Minicomputers" > April 1976 & Winter 1976 - 1977 > It was listed as a Microcomputer in Datamation Magazine Dec 1974 > It was called a Microcomputer in "A MICROCOMPUTER BASED SUBSTATION > CONTROL SYSTEM" The University of Oklahoma, Ph.D., 1975 Engineering, > electronics and electrical Page 90 > It was listed as a Microcomputer in the Intel MCS 4 User Manual Feb > 1973 page 171 > It was listed as a Microcomputer in Electronics Magazine Jan 1973, > they promote the 4004 and 8008 and use the System 4 as an example. > The reality is this existed, was 4004 based and there were discussions > about it in the media at the time. > > Anyway I wanted to see if there was more interest in researching this > computer. > > I listed a number of articles and references below that either discuss > Comstar, The Warner Swasey Computer Division, the “System 4” or “Star > 4” Computer. > > All the Manuals and schematics I was able to upload to archive.org > https://archive.org/search?query=subject%3A%22Comstar+Computer+Systems%22 > > Computer History Museum's Archive of the Manual > https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102686568 > > Pictures of the items I have collected so far > https://imgur.com/a/Oyts3A9 > > The website "Internet Scripophily Museum of Computing" has a page on > the history of The Warner & Swasey Company. It's a decent timeline of > the company > http://ismoc.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-warner-swasey-company.html > > "Development of a portable compiler for industrial microcomputer > systems" by LEROY H. ANDERSON The Warner & Swasey Company, it > discusses the system and has images on the unit. > > https://www.computer.org/csdl/pds/api/csdl/proceedings/download-article/12OmNzRqdD4/pdf > > In the ACM's archives "Development of a portable compiler for > industrial microcomputer systems" by LEROY H. ANDERSON The Warner & > Swasey Company, it discusses the system and has images on the unit. > > https://www.computer.org/csdl/pds/api/csdl/proceedings/download-article/12OmNzRqdD4/pdf > > Electronics Magazine July 11th 1974 Article: Industrial Automatic > control proliferates, they are mentioned on page 84 & 85 > > https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Electronics/70s/74/Electronics-1974-07-11.pdf > > There is a mention about the compiler in the IEEE on Page 25 under > Compiler Programmer > https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=6368812 > > Computer Design Magazine Nov 1975 Page 129 they talk about the compiler. > https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_ComputerDe_90611286/page/128/mode/2up > > The Intel MCS 4 User Manual Feb 1973 page 171 and in Electronics > Magazine Jan 1973, they promote the 4004 and 8008 and use the System 4 > as an example. > > http://www.bitsavers.org/components/intel/MCS4/MCS-4_UsersManual_Feb73.pdf > > https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Electronics/70s/73/Electronics-1973-01-04.pdf > > There are a number of sources that list the computer as a > "microcomputer" and provide specs showing it being 4004 based. > > Datamation Magazine Page 97 & 101 > http://www.bitsavers.org/magazines/Datamation/197412.pdf > > In "Auerbach Guide to Minicomputers" April 1976, the computer is > mentioned on page 54 and page 70. > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/auerbach/Auerbach_Guide_to_Minicomputers_Apr76.pdf > > In "Auerbach Guide to Minicomputers" Winter 1976 - 1977, the computer > is mentioned on page 32 > > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/auerbach/Auerbach_Guide_to_Minicomputers_1976-1977_Winter.pdf >
