> -----Original Message----- > From: Fleischer, Beth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:10 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > I dont' condone that either. I have some wonderful palestinian friends. > When in israel years ago I visited a wonderful community - an experiment - > where israelis and palestinians lived in peace. It was a wonderful place. > We also visited a palestinian town and got to meet kids our own age. They > were just like us and didn't hate us. > > However, the palestinians have an unfortunate high percentage of > extremeist > terrorists. I don't like these people.
They are also greatly repressed in a very poor economy. My guess is that where you visited was scripted. I would guess you were not allowed to go where the poverty is rampant and the people are angry. I am not defending the actions of these people, in no way would I do that. I am saying that there are almost always two sides to a story. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Falloon [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:12 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > Correction: > > My last paragraph should contained a typo. It should have read: > > > > This is my objection put simply. I do not condone the sterotyping of > > Palastinians into "American hating terrorists" by people who use the > > 'street > > celebration' footage as an example. This is a gross generalisation > > equivelent to called all americans "fat fast food addicted ignorant > > war-loving facists". Neither of these two description are fair and > > demonstrate radical ignorance. The corporate news is in part responsible > > for > > this ignorance. This is my objection. > > > > Correction: I do NOT condone > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:52 PM > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > It appears that you want to turn an honest attempt to boil down your > > > statements to their most basic terms (and give you a chance > to respond > > and > > > correct any misunderstanding) as an attack. I wasn't attacking you. I > > was > > > attacking the idea that we shouldn't draw conclusion when presented > > with, > > > what even you described as factual, news accounts. > > > > > > I see you trying to play both sides of the fence -- the news > is biased, > > but > > > it's factual. > > > > > > You can't have it both ways. > > > > > > As a journalist, I also take offense at your narrow-sighted, > uninformed > > view > > > of how a news operation works. It's the old thing -- people who don't > > like > > > to hear the truth blame the messenger. And then deride any > one who says, > > > "Hey, maybe it's not the messenger's fault." It's a very convenient > > position > > > to be in -- you can cast aspersions all around without ever being in a > > > position to honestly face your own biases. > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 10:28 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > You read into my words through your own stereotypical view of > > non-mainstream > > > thinking... > > > > > > My original post concerned the discussion surrounding the so called > > > 'celebrating Palastinians'. My critisism was limited to a discussion > > > concerning oppinions on this footage. Having said that, I > don't welcome > > you > > > putting words in my mouth concerning my position on the Taliban and > > their > > > oppressive regime. > > > > > > You've attempted to discredit my criticism of corporate owned media by > > > insinuating that I support the Taliban because I mistrust the > news. Your > > > conclusions are weak. You can label my words as "liberal > mantra" if you > > > wish, but in my oppinion this does your position no credit as > it implies > > > you're more interested in labels and stereotypes then a discussion of > > any > > > real depth. > > > > > > Keep watching television Howard. It appears to do you a lot of good. > > > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:17 PM > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to misstate what you're saying, but let me > boil down for > > you > > > > what I hear you saying: > > > > > > > > 1) The news may be factually correct, though the nuance may be off > > because > > > > of entertainment values -- therefore, the "real" news is some how > > > obscured. > > > > > > > > 2) Because the "news" has been remanufactured to a degree, and no > > longer > > > > reflects the raw, unvarnished truth, it is offensive to base any > > > conclusions > > > > this "newstainment." > > > > > > > > Am I understanding you correctly? > > > > > > > > Therefore, we should not condemn the Taliban for beating, > stoning and > > > > murdering women because, by golly, we learned about it on a network > > news > > > > show. And it was edited. And who knows what was left out. A Taliban > > denial > > > > maybe? Or possibly a Taliban apology ("We didn't mean to stone those > > women > > > > to death -- the rock just slipped. Sorry.") > > > > > > > > Is that really what you're saying. I mean, because that's > what I hear > > you > > > > saying. And I find it pretty offensive. > > > > > > > > If the facts are correct, it matters little how they are delivered. > > And > > no > > > > amount of political correctness (in this case, the liberal mantra of > > we > > > > shouldn't criticize other "cultures") can possibly justify what the > > > Taliban > > > > has done to women and dissenters within Afghanistan. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:18 PM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > Beth, > > > > > > > > I'm not certain how you arrived at such an exaggerated understanding > > of > > my > > > > original post. But allow me at least the oppertunity to expand my > > > perspetive > > > > before you sarcastically attack my posts once more, even though the > > > original > > > > post was not even address to you. > > > > > > > > I may have refered to television (and this can be broadened to any > > > > corporately own/operated news service) as manufactured, but > I did not > > in > > > any > > > > way insinuate that the 'stories' were myth. News services (mostly) > > deliver > > > > their content in a highly constructed way. News is like coka cola; > > coke > > is > > > > based on sugar, a 'real world' ingredient, just as the > "oppression of > > > > afghanistan women" may too be 'real world', but the end result > > delivered > > > by > > > > the news services is nothing 'natural'... it is a manufacured > > construct > > > > intentionally mixed to produce the desired effect. This is > how I view > > > > corporate news services. Most of what is aired looks no different > > from, > > > and > > > > indeed reflects the kind of news approach highlighted by > the nineties > > film > > > > "Wag the Dog". > > > > > > > > Images are carefully selected, edited and cut with emotive music and > > > > commentry designed to promote a certain perspective. Exactly whose > > > > perspective/interests/politics represented are beyond the reach of > > this > > > > discussion, but the net effect of these kinds of > presentations are not > > at > > > > all dissimilar to those effects achieved by the > entertainment industry > > as > > > a > > > > whole. > > > > > > > > News is entertainment/entertainment is news. I find making > judgements > > upon > > > > other peoples/cultures etc based on this kind of information > > offensive. > > > > > > > > I recall a previous post by Gary that brought up the lack on true > > > > investigative reporting in the main stream news. My oppinion on the > > news > > > is > > > > an extension of this logic. > > > > > > > > Benjamin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:12 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks!! > > > > > > > > > > did you hear it! The oppression of afghanistan women is a myth, > > made > > up > > > > by > > > > > the media. > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin, I heard about the plight of afghani women several years > > ago > > > when > > > > > an afghan woman came to speak at a university. Did she make it up > > too? > > > > was > > > > > she in on the big media conspiracy? Were the stories she told of > > women > > > > > being killed for walking down the street with a man whom they > > weren't > > > > > married to made up too? Were the stories of female lawyers and > > doctors > > > > made > > > > > up too? And she left afghanistan not because she was no longer > > > allowed > > > > to > > > > > practice law there, but just to spread these lies about the > > wonderful > > > > > taliban rule? All those underground schools to teach girls dont' > > exist > > > > > right - because under the taliban rule girls WERE allowed to go to > > > school? > > > > > And all this information I received prior to 9/11 - it was made up > > for > > > > WHAT > > > > > REASON? > > > > > > > > > > so, all the people in afghanistan listening to music > again, shaving > > > their > > > > > beards, taking off their masks, they weren't really oppressed its > > just > > a > > > > > media invention, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The western media is at best, extrodinatily limited in it's > > > > representation > > > > > > of 'real people' in the middle east (or media east as > it's exists > > for > > > > us). > > > > > > Furthermore, it's representation is more often designed > to promote > > > this > > > > > > kind > > > > > > of discussion by manufacture of 'stories' (one of these > being the > > > > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the oppression > of women in > > > > > > Aphganistan for example). These stories are the > developed and made > > > self > > > > > > referencial, repeated over and over by all media outlets until > > they > > > > become > > > > > > the measure of oppinion polls on presidencial popularity. There > > > simplify > > > > > > polarize and synthasize politics and culture for the fast food > > culture > > > > > > that > > > > > > is America. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were a LOT more than 1 woman and 5 kids. > There were PA > > > police > > > > > > > taking camera's away from reporters to avoid the news from it. > > There > > > > > > were > > > > > > > letters of protest from the AP and Reuters over it. I know > > people > > > who > > > > > > live > > > > > > > in Israel and have first hand reports as do many others. > > > > > > > 2. The rumor that it was old footage was debunked. It started > > with > > a > > > > > > > student in Argentina and spread. It was real footage. > > > > > > > 3. I don't condemn any Palestinian for the actions of > some truly > > > sick > > > > > > > people who take pride and happiness in the suffering > of others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >As or your second quesion... > > > > > > > >First, that clip of a women dancing and five kids > > > > > > > >clapping there hands, I wouldnt realy know how that is > > > > > > > >considred 'my people', last time i checked, the > > > > > > > >Palestinian population was not reprented by a women > > > > > > > >and 5 kids, and yes, a car passing by blowings its > > > > > > > >horn...Second, CNN, which first aired the clip, was > > > > > > > >and still is accused of airing an old clip which was > > > > > > > >taking during the Iraq war, except , sadly, no media > > > > > > > >outlet would ever let the story run, nor deny or > > > > > > > >confirm the reports.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Now i dont know if that is right or wrong, I do > > > > > > > >believe that YES, its very possible that there does > > > > > > > >exist a palestinian women who danced in the streets, > > > > > > > >and its so re-assuring that a camera somehow found her > > > > > > > >dancing and aired her image, two hours after the > > > > > > > >incident.....I would think there would be more > > > > > > > >pressing issues at that time,but i guess a Palestinian > > > > > > > >women supposedly dancing in the streets of > > > > > > > >Palestine,is more important than the those tens and > > > > > > > >thousands of casualties and the chaos that was > > > > > > > >happening here.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I guess the Palestinians where just about to get there > > > > > > > >independence and your blessings, and this women came > > > > > > > >and screwed everything up for us!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >BTW, the women was kinda a heavy set, so i wouldnt > > > > > > > >realy call it "Jumping up for Joy", the poor old lady > > > > > > > >could barely walk, but she was eating sweets, which > > > > > > > >does probably translate to her as jumping up for > > > > > > > >joy!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-community@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
