Do we have to go over this again??!!
I'm pretty sick of it actually...
Let me clarify what I mean as simply as possible.
The stories are manufactured. This does not mean that they were invented out
of thin air and not based of some kind of 'reality'. By manufactured I mean
taken from a source, selective information and bias opinions constucted,
edited down to have a punchy feel, music, special effect and voice over
add... final product presented to the consumers as 'news'. This is the
process of news manufacturing.
To reiterate. What's behind the news may be 'true', but the news stories
themselves are manufactured as is all television... I hope this clarifies
what I mean.
Side note on posts timing: My posts from yesterday are just arrive. Please
just ignore them. If they insult you I take them back.
Benjamin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 5:20 AM
Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> you said that the stories were "manufactured"
> So I pointed out how much evidence there was that this was untrue and that
> this information existed pre 9-11
> Below I posted your exact words to show you what you said when you said I
> twisted your words.
>
> Is this so difficult for you to understand?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Benjamin Falloon [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:15 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> >
> > give me a break
> > What exactly is your point anyway beth. you don't see to be saying
> > anything
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:07 AM
> > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> >
> >
> > > WHAT?
> > > Are you denying you said this:
> > > manufacture of 'stories' (one of these being the
> > > > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the oppression of
> > > women in
> > > > > > Aphganistan for example).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:28 PM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > > >
> > > > You read into my words through your own stereotypical view of
> > > > non-mainstream
> > > > thinking...
> > > >
> > > > My original post concerned the discussion surrounding the so called
> > > > 'celebrating Palastinians'. My critisism was limited to a discussion
> > > > concerning oppinions on this footage. Having said that, I don't
> > welcome
> > > > you
> > > > putting words in my mouth concerning my position on the Taliban and
> > their
> > > > oppressive regime.
> > > >
> > > > You've attempted to discredit my criticism of corporate owned media
by
> > > > insinuating that I support the Taliban because I mistrust the news.
> > Your
> > > > conclusions are weak. You can label my words as "liberal mantra" if
> > you
> > > > wish, but in my oppinion this does your position no credit as it
> > implies
> > > > you're more interested in labels and stereotypes then a discussion
of
> > any
> > > > real depth.
> > > >
> > > > Keep watching television Howard. It appears to do you a lot of good.
> > > >
> > > > Benjamin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:17 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I don't want to misstate what you're saying, but let me boil down
> > for
> > > > you
> > > > > what I hear you saying:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) The news may be factually correct, though the nuance may be off
> > > > because
> > > > > of entertainment values -- therefore, the "real" news is some how
> > > > obscured.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Because the "news" has been remanufactured to a degree, and no
> > longer
> > > > > reflects the raw, unvarnished truth, it is offensive to base any
> > > > conclusions
> > > > > this "newstainment."
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I understanding you correctly?
> > > > >
> > > > > Therefore, we should not condemn the Taliban for beating, stoning
> > and
> > > > > murdering women because, by golly, we learned about it on a
network
> > news
> > > > > show. And it was edited. And who knows what was left out. A
Taliban
> > > > denial
> > > > > maybe? Or possibly a Taliban apology ("We didn't mean to stone
those
> > > > women
> > > > > to death -- the rock just slipped. Sorry.")
> > > > >
> > > > > Is that really what you're saying. I mean, because that's what I
> > hear
> > > > you
> > > > > saying. And I find it pretty offensive.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the facts are correct, it matters little how they are
delivered.
> > And
> > > > no
> > > > > amount of political correctness (in this case, the liberal mantra
of
> > we
> > > > > shouldn't criticize other "cultures") can possibly justify what
the
> > > > Taliban
> > > > > has done to women and dissenters within Afghanistan.
> > > > >
> > > > > H.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:18 PM
> > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > Subject: Re: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Beth,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not certain how you arrived at such an exaggerated
understanding
> > of
> > > > my
> > > > > original post. But allow me at least the oppertunity to expand my
> > > > perspetive
> > > > > before you sarcastically attack my posts once more, even though
the
> > > > original
> > > > > post was not even address to you.
> > > > >
> > > > > I may have refered to television (and this can be broadened to any
> > > > > corporately own/operated news service) as manufactured, but I did
> > not
> > in
> > > > any
> > > > > way insinuate that the 'stories' were myth. News services (mostly)
> > > > deliver
> > > > > their content in a highly constructed way. News is like coka cola;
> > coke
> > > > is
> > > > > based on sugar, a 'real world' ingredient, just as the "oppression
> > of
> > > > > afghanistan women" may too be 'real world', but the end result
> > delivered
> > > > by
> > > > > the news services is nothing 'natural'... it is a manufacured
> > construct
> > > > > intentionally mixed to produce the desired effect. This is how I
> > view
> > > > > corporate news services. Most of what is aired looks no different
> > from,
> > > > and
> > > > > indeed reflects the kind of news approach highlighted by the
> > nineties
> > > > film
> > > > > "Wag the Dog".
> > > > >
> > > > > Images are carefully selected, edited and cut with emotive music
and
> > > > > commentry designed to promote a certain perspective. Exactly whose
> > > > > perspective/interests/politics represented are beyond the reach of
> > this
> > > > > discussion, but the net effect of these kinds of presentations are
> > not
> > > > at
> > > > > all dissimilar to those effects achieved by the entertainment
> > industry
> > > > as
> > > > a
> > > > > whole.
> > > > >
> > > > > News is entertainment/entertainment is news. I find making
> > judgements
> > > > upon
> > > > > other peoples/cultures etc based on this kind of information
> > offensive.
> > > > >
> > > > > I recall a previous post by Gary that brought up the lack on true
> > > > > investigative reporting in the main stream news. My oppinion on
the
> > news
> > > > is
> > > > > an extension of this logic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Benjamin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Fleischer, Beth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:12 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Folks!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > did you hear it! The oppression of afghanistan women is a myth,
> > made
> > > > up
> > > > > by
> > > > > > the media.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Benjamin, I heard about the plight of afghani women several
years
> > ago
> > > > when
> > > > > > an afghan woman came to speak at a university. Did she make it
up
> > > > too?
> > > > > was
> > > > > > she in on the big media conspiracy? Were the stories she told
of
> > > > women
> > > > > > being killed for walking down the street with a man whom they
> > weren't
> > > > > > married to made up too? Were the stories of female lawyers and
> > doctors
> > > > > made
> > > > > > up too? And she left afghanistan not because she was no
longer
> > > > allowed
> > > > > to
> > > > > > practice law there, but just to spread these lies about the
> > wonderful
> > > > > > taliban rule? All those underground schools to teach girls
dont'
> > > > exist
> > > > > > right - because under the taliban rule girls WERE allowed to go
to
> > > > school?
> > > > > > And all this information I received prior to 9/11 - it was made
up
> > for
> > > > > WHAT
> > > > > > REASON?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so, all the people in afghanistan listening to music again,
> > shaving
> > > > their
> > > > > > beards, taking off their masks, they weren't really oppressed
its
> > just
> > > > a
> > > > > > media invention, right?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The western media is at best, extrodinatily limited in it's
> > > > > representation
> > > > > > > of 'real people' in the middle east (or media east as it's
> > exists
> > > > for
> > > > > us).
> > > > > > > Furthermore, it's representation is more often designed to
> > promote
> > > > this
> > > > > > > kind
> > > > > > > of discussion by manufacture of 'stories' (one of these being
> > the
> > > > > > > celebrating Palistinians, another being the oppression of
women
> > in
> > > > > > > Aphganistan for example). These stories are the developed and
> > made
> > > > self
> > > > > > > referencial, repeated over and over by all media outlets until
> > they
> > > > > become
> > > > > > > the measure of oppinion polls on presidencial popularity.
There
> > > > simplify
> > > > > > > polarize and synthasize politics and culture for the fast food
> > > > culture
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > is America.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:18 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: Massive blasts rock Central Jerusalem :(
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. There were a LOT more than 1 woman and 5 kids. There were
> > PA
> > > > police
> > > > > > > > taking camera's away from reporters to avoid the news from
it.
> > > > There
> > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > letters of protest from the AP and Reuters over it. I know
> > people
> > > > who
> > > > > > > live
> > > > > > > > in Israel and have first hand reports as do many others.
> > > > > > > > 2. The rumor that it was old footage was debunked. It
started
> > with
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > student in Argentina and spread. It was real footage.
> > > > > > > > 3. I don't condemn any Palestinian for the actions of some
> > truly
> > > > sick
> > > > > > > > people who take pride and happiness in the suffering of
> > others.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >As or your second quesion...
> > > > > > > > >First, that clip of a women dancing and five kids
> > > > > > > > >clapping there hands, I wouldnt realy know how that is
> > > > > > > > >considred 'my people', last time i checked, the
> > > > > > > > >Palestinian population was not reprented by a women
> > > > > > > > >and 5 kids, and yes, a car passing by blowings its
> > > > > > > > >horn...Second, CNN, which first aired the clip, was
> > > > > > > > >and still is accused of airing an old clip which was
> > > > > > > > >taking during the Iraq war, except , sadly, no media
> > > > > > > > >outlet would ever let the story run, nor deny or
> > > > > > > > >confirm the reports....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Now i dont know if that is right or wrong, I do
> > > > > > > > >believe that YES, its very possible that there does
> > > > > > > > >exist a palestinian women who danced in the streets,
> > > > > > > > >and its so re-assuring that a camera somehow found her
> > > > > > > > >dancing and aired her image, two hours after the
> > > > > > > > >incident.....I would think there would be more
> > > > > > > > >pressing issues at that time,but i guess a Palestinian
> > > > > > > > >women supposedly dancing in the streets of
> > > > > > > > >Palestine,is more important than the those tens and
> > > > > > > > >thousands of casualties and the chaos that was
> > > > > > > > >happening here..
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I guess the Palestinians where just about to get there
> > > > > > > > >independence and your blessings, and this women came
> > > > > > > > >and screwed everything up for us!!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >BTW, the women was kinda a heavy set, so i wouldnt
> > > > > > > > >realy call it "Jumping up for Joy", the poor old lady
> > > > > > > > >could barely walk, but she was eating sweets, which
> > > > > > > > >does probably translate to her as jumping up for
> > > > > > > > >joy!!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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