> -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Sorge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:21 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Electability and Religion (Yeah, More Atheist Stuff) > > the fact of the matter is the founders of this country were religious > men. > And yes, although they are not considered "Christians" by today's > standards, > they are none the less religious men who let their religious values > shape > this country.
This is false. I'm sorry. SOME of the founding fathers were definitely very devout believers. Some were clearly anti-religious. Many were not Christian (Unitarian Deism was very popular in those days). They were complex, intelligent and curious people: you can find quotes to support their faith or their lack of it. Many of them actively questioned religious tradition and dogma. The founders were NOT "religious men" - they were men. Like today that group of men was made up of believers, non-believers and all things in-between. Thomas Paine, for example, was outspokenly anti-religious as was James Madison. Franklin, Jefferson and John Adams seemed to hold the belief in a God as self-evident but were very skeptical about the claims or need of religion (especially where government was concerned). Washington couldn't have been more apathetic towards religion. Jefferson is probably the most scrutinized (probably because we have such a huge amount of his writing) but was clearly against most established Christian ideals (he did not, for example, believe in the divinity of Christ). What is clear however is that they did NOT want religion to play a foundational part of this country. I agree that a religious upbringing may have helped to inform many of their ethical and moral stances but this is suspect considering that predominantly non-religious people and states have essentially the same ethical and moral compasses. I guess what I'm really railing against here is the idea that the values embodied in the Constitution have a religious foundation. There's really no evidence for that: the Constitution definitely promotes certain values, but they are human values, not religious ones. It clearly allows for all religious beliefs but does not, as some suggest, dictate the need for any: again any mentions of religion in the Constitution are exclusionary, not requisite. I find it hard to believe that a group of "religious men" who "let their religious values shape this country" would so completely eliminate religion from the Constitution. In fact the opposite seems true: the document is clearly designed to prevent religion from becoming entwined with government. Jim Davis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:243229 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
