Kinda playing devil's advocate. For a sec... not directed at Loathe, but at the conversation in general...
We're in a state of war, like it or not, agree with it or not, it's the current state of affairs. In order to successfully clean up this mess, so Loathe, Bruce, my brother in law, my friend Kevin and others dont have to be in harm's way any longer than is absolutely necessary, we need intelligence (the spy kind, not the brain kind, although we need that too) How do we gather that intelligence from individuals without coercion, without torture... obviously the "Hi we're the US Armed Forces, we're here to liberate you" approach isn't going to work. Can you bribe someone and get credible intel, can you inject them with sodium penethol (sp?) and get credible intel, can you make promises to them and get credible intel. I dont consider what they did to Saddam Hussein as torture, it basically was extreme sleep deprevation, water boarding sounds like it sucks... bad. How do we get the intel without making life uncomfortable for those that have it.. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer SSTWebworks 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC. 27616 (919) 874-6229 (home) (703) 220-2835 (cell) -----Original Message----- From: Loathe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:32 PM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Waterboarding (Re: [Obama] Client sent me this ...) I'm sure it's disturbing, I don't know anything about WW2 war crime convictions, I will however say this. Would you rather we just line them up and kill them? I mean, thats pretty psychologically damaging while your waiting for your turn neh? I can admit that I have no problem with psychological torture, and have a problem with physical torture. Also I not only said what I think is Acceptable, but also what is acceptable under the rules of land warfare. So not JUST an opinion but also statutory fact to back it up. Todd wrote: > I will include another of your comments in my response to your first. > >>> I'm using MY definition of what I think is acceptable treatment for an > enemy combatant. One that has NO rights under the rules of land warfare > and could be summarily executed at any time as a spy or a saboteur. > > Just because you think it is 'acceptable treatment' does not mean the act > itself is no longer torture. If you think it is acceptable to torture > people for whatever reason, fine, just say that. > > Psychological torture is sometimes worse than physical. Not to be crude, > but if someone were to dunk your head in a toilet until you almost, or did > pass out, and you weren't sure whether each time would be your last on this > earth, I think you would probably start to feel pretty tortured. It has to > be a horrifying experience. Suffocation has to be one of the worst ways to > die. > > I also find it interesting how the U.S. convicted a Japanese officer after > WWII of war crimes for waterboarding and sentenced him to 15 years hard > labor, but now it's AOK when it is useful for 'us'. > > I am still trying to find something I read about what actually happens > during waterboarding. It was pretty disturbing. I am pretty sure it was > even posted to this list. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <cf-community@houseoffusion.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Obama] Client sent me this ... > > >> Do you have an actual argument or just a "feeling"? >> >> Todd wrote: >>> I call bullshit on this. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "CF-Community" <cf-community@houseoffusion.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Obama] Client sent me this ... >>> >>> >>>> Water boarding is not torture. >>>> >>>> Cutting off fingers, electrocution, burning, beating, kicking, these are >>>> torture. >>>> >>>> Or to expand on the argument, while PHYSICAL torture is and should be >>>> banned, psychological torture isn't and shouldn't be. >>>> >>>> I mean the cops can use a lot of methods that are construed as >>>> psychological torture, but we'll prohibit our soldiers from doing so? > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:254222 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
