I think that they probably are guilty of what they are accused of and of wanting to do worse. I think that the validity of their trials will be questioned because of the waterboarding and because of all the deceit and incompetence that has surrounded such detainees.
Otherwise I pretty much agree with you. It is not that my heart bleeds for the architect of 9/11. It is that we have managed to put the United States in the wrong on this issue. I think torture is a horrifying alternative. I deplore it. I don't think I am ready to say it should *never* be used, but on the othre hand, if its results are unreliable anyway what good is it? On Feb 13, 2008 2:06 PM, Jerry Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > He is implying, I guess, that the Brits regularly torture and violate > civil liberties. > > Let me be clear about my personal stance. > > I am not too heartbroken over the 3 victims of waterboarding. > > What does bother me is the weasly-mouthed, Clintonesque parsing of > words that is going on bu the administration about it. > > If we torture, say so. > If we need to torture, say so. > If we need to torture in certain circumstances, say so. > If we need to violate laws at certain times, to gain an advantage, say so. > > Then, at least, we can talk about it as a society. > > Look at the numbers. > Something like 80% of the country thinks waterboarding is torture. > They also think it should be illegal. > They also think there are times it has to be done. > > If it is a tool we absolutely do need, make it sort of like that old > abortion tagline: > rare, illegal, and safe > > and then the court marshal could decide, in a "self defense", or "jury > nullification" way, that _this_ time was different, and the person who > did it should not be punished for it. > > a little personal jeopardy for the torturers to be absolutely certain > it is the only solution, a bad, bad, option but the only one. > > > > > > On Feb 13, 2008 3:55 PM, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't know. And like Jerry, I am confused as to why it matters. > > > > On Feb 13, 2008 1:36 PM, Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Isn't he a brit? > > > > > > They really have no business opening their mouth during any discussion > > > of civil liberties or torture. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:254237 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
