Here's a concrete example of open, public, probably legal screwing of a minority versus an extra-judicial, secret screwing. Take the Defense of Marriage Act. It most certainly discriminates against a minority and I certainly have more sympathy for same sex couples denied federal recognition than I do rich folks with a marginal tax rate of 40% on income above $250,000.
But DOMA was introduced in the legislature, was lobbied for and against on both sides and was passed. Now opponents are fighting it in the court system while also working on trying to change the legislation through the legislative process. It sucks and it makes me nuts, but that's the way the system works. Compare that to warrantless wire taps that may get you deported or indefinitely detained or (in the case of Hamadan) have your assetts seized based on secret "evidence" gathered through an extra judicial process by unknown entities and you aren't allowed to know the existence of the program, what it entails, who authorized it and you have no recourse through the courts, the legislature or even through public opinion. Yeah, I'll take the legal public screwing, thanks. Judah On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > > I might be willing to bet that the number of people getting screwed by the ' > legal power within the structure set forth by the Constitution and the laws > of the land, carried out in public by elected representatives' in reference > to taxation is higher than the number of people who are/were/will be scrwed > by the 'illegal power, carried out in an extra-judicial fashion, secretly, > by a small group of unelected and unaccountable shadow figures; in reference > to the wiretapping. > > 'The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not.' - Thomsa Jefferson > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Judah McAuley <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Fine, you think that progressive taxation is class warfare and that >> the poor put upon rich people need to be protected from the tax >> structure going back to what it was under Reagan. >> >> Those put upon rich people have legitimate means of redress. They know >> the proposed changes, they can lobby, they can vote. If they don't >> like it, they can form groups to oppose it and even consider moving >> elsewhere. I'm all for debates about appropriate tax policy. I'll call >> you an idiot and a crybaby for opposing the tax reforms currently >> being proposed but regardless it is an entirely separate and distinct >> debate no matter how much you want to claim otherwise. >> >> There is legal power within the structure set forth by the >> Constitution and the laws of the land, carried out in public by >> elected representatives. Then there is illegal power, carried out in >> an extra-judicial fashion, secretly, by a small group of unelected and >> unaccountable shadow figures. >> >> Those two things are not alike Robert. >> >> Judah >> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Robert Munn <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Secrecy is not the issue. Abuse of power is the issue. In fact, isn't it >> far >> > worse when the government openly punishes a select group of people - not >> > only punishes them but actively encourages the public to get behind the >> > punishment? The top 2% of taxpayers - isn't that several million people >> who >> > will be affected? Why are we allowing the government to selectively >> punish >> > several million people? And how far is it from punishing the top 2% to >> the >> > top 10%, to everyone over the median wage? Not very far. >> > >> > Obama is using the economic mess to push a socialist legislative agenda >> he >> > would have pushed regardless. His demagoguery toward capitalism generally >> > and Wall Street specifically are taking a huge toll on the economy, and >> he >> > seems to not care in the slightest that he is strangling the golden goose >> > with his rhetoric and his agenda. >> > >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:290524 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
