Numerous criminal charges (so far) have been brought against the Clinton
Administration and participants. So far the count of convicted charges is
46. I think this makes the first statement you made of the Regan analogy
seriously flawed.
Regardless of Clinton beating Regan's record hands-down - who know's what
the number would have been had he not made all of his "parting eve pardons"
. .
"On the night before and morning of his departure from office, Bill
Clinton made several controversial "midnight" pardons. Aside from pardoning
political allies and scandal co-conspirators such as Susan McDougal, Henry
Cisneros, and his brother Roger, Bill pardoned fugitive criminal millionaire
Marc Rich. Rich was charged in the early eighties with several felony
offenses but fled to Switzerland to avoid facing trial. Among Rich's crimes
were oil deals with Iran during the hostage crisis and ties to arms
smuggling. Amazingly, Clinton completely disregarded pardon protocol in the
Rich case and failed to properly inform many authorities in the justice
department of Rich's fugitive status. The story becomes more interesting
considering that Marc Rich's ex wife Denise, who fought for his pardon, is a
close Clinton friend and DNC donor. Denise Rich gave $1 million in
contributions to the DNC, $450,000 to Bill Clinton's library fund, and
$70,000 to Hillary Clinton's senate campaign according to the Washington
Times (2/22/00). The Rich pardon appears to be a political pay off and,
though the president may constitutionally pardon anyone, it appears he
abused his authority in a quid pro quo pardon in exchange for political
donations. Clinton's pardon of Rich has prompted criticism from even the
most liberal Clinton defenders and several prominent Democrats. Former
President Carter called the pardon "disgraceful" while Senator Tom Harkin
and even Rep. Barney Frank criticized it!
But that is by no means all. Hillary Clinton's brother Hugh Rodham was
paid over $400,000 dollars for successfully fighting for pardons and
commutations for criminals Carlos Vignali and Almon Glenn Braswell, two
included in Clinton's last minute pardons and commutations list. Upon the
eve of this story breaking, Hillary and Bill denied any knowledge of Hugh's
involvement and, under pressure, called on him to return the money.
Translation: they got caught."
I hope I'm not offending anyone - trying to keep this little debate thing
totally non-personal (and enjoying it! =P) Please tell me if I step on
anyone's toes - its not my intentions.
=)
Nate Nielsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry C. Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: My thoughts on Education
> Simple comparison, how many investigations were made of the Clinton
> administration during his two terms in office. Compare that with the
Reagan
> administration. Which administration had 29 felony convictions as an
> outcome of those investigations, and which one had only one indictment?
> I'll give you a hint, Reagan's administration had far more than one
felony
> conviction during its tenure in office.
>
> Another comparison. Which administration ran up the largest debt since the
> great depression and which one all but eliminated that debt?
>
> Simple questions no?
>
> If you use the exact same standard for both administrations, economically
> the Clinton administration presided over the largest economic expansion
> since the 1920's. The national economy actually shrank during Reagan's
term.
>
> Now which administration was the more successful of the 2?
>
> At 04:38 PM 5/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >The comment "They were failures in Texas and now he's trying to achieve
the
> >same failure nationally." is not only un-founded, it is ridiculous and
plain
> >argumentative.
> >
> >I personally feel there has been no greater tragedy to this country than
the
> >Clinton/Gore team - yet others loved them. With eight years of
opportunity
> >to fix such problems, you still have the nerve to criticize someone
trying
> >to accomplish the goals you (key word : STILL) strive for. Will it be
> >perfect? Likely not, but a step in the right direction, I think so.
> >
> >Even though I personally hold Clinton and Gore in high contempt for their
> >poor performance, I believe deep down that they did not actually ~try~ to
> >achieve their failures - I think every man has good intentions in their
own
> >right, including those that I detest such as them.
> >
> >Furthermore, I live in TX, and can honestly say that the only reason I
would
> >ever want Bush out of office, is that I could enjoy his level-headed
> >politics as Governor. The fact remains that the over-all Texas education
> >scores rose with the changes he made. There were a number of positive
> >changes such as increased salaries and holding teachers responsible for
> >their students performance that even democrats have cried for. As
president
> >I look forward to some long-needed changes that I think he has and will
> >deliver.
> >
> >Where do you get off saying such comments as "now he's trying to . . ."?
> >Such mud-slinging doesn't belong in a debate or reasonable conversational
> >argument. It's so poor in character, it hardly even a response.
> >
> >bleh.. . heh
> >
> >Nate Nielsen
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Larry Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 3:42 PM
> >Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education
> >
> >
> > > I'm reporting on my own experience as an educational researcher. I was
> > > brought in by contract funded by a private foundation. part of our
report
> > > directly linked the educational performance of Houston area schools
with
> > > policies initiated by the Bush administration when he was governor of
> >Texas.
> > > Specific withdrawal of reading readiness program funding is one
example.
> > >
> > > I have always thought that past performance is the best predictor of
> >present
> > > or future performance. Reading Governor Bush's past performance on
> >education
> > > so far is turning out to be a very good predictor of his current and
> >future
> > > education policies. They were failures in Texas and now he's trying to
> > > achieve the same failure nationally.
> > >
> > > larry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Larry C. Lyons
> > > ColdFusion/Web Developer
> > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> > > EBStor.com
> > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> > > tel: (703) 393-7930
> > > fax: (703) 393-2659
> > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com
> > > http://www.pacel.com
> > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> > > --
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Nate Nielsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 3:43 PM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Education
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Since we have brought Bush into the conversation out of left
> > > > field - heheh.
> > > > I thought I would post this non-biased link of the campaign
> > > > comparisons of
> > > > Al and George for education.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/resources/where.they.stand/in
> > > > dex.html#educa
> > > > tion
> > > >
> > > > Of course the most obvious difference would be Gore spending
> > > > 100 times more
> > > > money than Bush.
> > > >
> > > > I guess I am one of those "less government" people. =P It seems
the
> > > > democrats are hell bent on turning america into a communist
> > > > nation, after
> > > > all - if we continue this dangerous democratic spending
> > > > behavior and unfair
> > > > economic based taxing, eventually we will all make the same
> > > > exact amount of
> > > > money, and the government will control it. *sigh*
> > > >
> > > > I realize that there are needs to be met, programs that we
> > > > socially need -
> > > > but where does it end?
> > > >
> > > > And in advance before anyone gets their panties in a wad - I am not
> > > > attacking anyone, republican or democrat - I am simply opening the
> > > > discussion based on the spending and taxing differences
> > > > between the parties.
> > > > I still love you demo's - if we only had one part, boy would we be
in
> > > > trouble - lol
> > > >
> > > > Nate Nielsen
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Larry Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:08 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > What do you mean by government. Those programs that I saw
> > > > that worked
> > > > > required Government involvement. I object to poor
> > > > involvement not none.
> > > > for
> > > > > example, the failures I saw in the Houston school system
> > > > could be directly
> > > > > attributable to the government of Governor George W. Bush's
> > > > non-involvement
> > > > > in education. That is a prime example of your wanting to
> > > > get government
> > > > out
> > > > > of the schools.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Larry C. Lyons
> > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer
> > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> > > > > EBStor.com
> > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930
> > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659
> > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com
> > > > > http://www.pacel.com
> > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:58 PM
> > > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree. Do you see a pattern to all the things you like
> > > > > > though Larry,
> > > > > > parent involvement, volunteers, etc. They don't involve the
> > > > > > government.
> > > > > > Get the government out of education and I think you will see
> > > > > > the system
> > > > > > improve dramatically.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:53 PM
> > > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are magnet schools in almost every school district
> > > > specifically
> > > > > > intended for this purpose. Frequently these magnet schools are
far
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > institutions than most private schools.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Moreover I strongly disagree with backwarding (confining to the
> > > > > > equivalent
> > > > > > of the back ward in a psych hospital) kids in public
> > > > schools. Their
> > > > > > development is as important as every other kid's. Your
> > > > experience is
> > > > > > typical. There just was not enough help in the school room.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One proposal has been to use classroom assistants to reduce the
> > > > > > teacher-student ratio. thus when teachers have to deal
> > > > with special
> > > > > > needs
> > > > > > students who have, the assistants can pick up the slack.
> > > > They can be
> > > > > > either
> > > > > > paid or volunteer aides. Another
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another way of alleviating this is to use parents to help
> > > > out in the
> > > > > > schools. One of the best things I saw in a couple of the schools
I
> > > > > > looked at
> > > > > > on this project in Houston was parental involvement. That had
the
> > > > > > greatest
> > > > > > impact on the student school performance. We saw
> > > > significant increases
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > attendance, for all kids not just the kids of the aide,
> > > > both school
> > > > > > grades
> > > > > > and standardized test performances also showed significant
> > > > > > improvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've also done parallel analyses on some of the NORC data
> > > > > > (http://www.NORC.org) using a population of about 3000
> > > > 5th through 8th
> > > > > > graders, in the cohort years 1987 through 1990, and found
> > > > very similar
> > > > > > results. Parental involvement and teacher-student ratio had a
much
> > > > > > greater
> > > > > > influence on subsequent academic performance. They had
> > > > > > considerably more
> > > > > > influence than for instance whether the student went to a
> > > > public or
> > > > > > private
> > > > > > school or socio-economic status.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > larry
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Larry C. Lyons
> > > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer
> > > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> > > > > > EBStor.com
> > > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> > > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> > > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930
> > > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659
> > > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com
> > > > > > http://www.pacel.com
> > > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:31 PM
> > > > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't want just choice. I want to see privatized schools
> > > > > > that cater
> > > > > > > to those with problems. There were many times that I was
> > > > > > held up in a
> > > > > > > class because a teacher had to cater to someone else who
> > > > > > wasn't at the
> > > > > > > same level. Albeit that didn't happen as much in the AP
> > > > > > > classes I took.
> > > > > > > Have a school that caters to gifted children and gives them
> > > > > > > the specific
> > > > > > > attention they need and have a school that gives specific
> > > > > > attention to
> > > > > > > those who have needs in other areas.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kevin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:25 PM
> > > > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes the Wonderful world of vouchers, the panacea of all of our
> > > > > > > educational
> > > > > > > woes. Do I hear skimming here? No private school is required
> > > > > > > to take the
> > > > > > > special needs kids that public schools are required to do
> > > > > > so by law. I
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > have no problem with vouchers if the exact same
> > > > standards for public
> > > > > > > education are applied to private schools in order to
> > > > > > receive vouchers.
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > includes all constitutionality issues and issues of free
> > > > > > access. Your
> > > > > > > local
> > > > > > > religious school would have to deal with those kids with
> > > > > > tourettes or
> > > > > > > Autism
> > > > > > > or ADHD etc at certain minimal standards or those kids who
> > > > > > > get fed as an
> > > > > > > afterthought, instead of not allowing them in the school in
> > > > > > the first
> > > > > > > place.
> > > > > > > if a sectarian school, or any private school want to
> > > > get government
> > > > > > > money or
> > > > > > > services then they have to follow minimal standards. I would
> > > > > > > not be too
> > > > > > > surprised if the exact same standards have to be met by
> > > > > > > private schools,
> > > > > > > most will quickly drop out. Quite rapidly this so-called
> > > > > > school choice
> > > > > > > becomes no choice at all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > larry
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Larry C. Lyons
> > > > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer
> > > > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> > > > > > > EBStor.com
> > > > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> > > > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> > > > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930
> > > > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659
> > > > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com
> > > > > > > http://www.pacel.com
> > > > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:11 PM
> > > > > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The wonderful world of vouchers. I get the same amount of
> > > > > > > tax dollars
> > > > > > > > that is spent on my son to go to public school. Of
> > > > course this
> > > > > > > > transition takes time and you have to do it right.
Otherwise
> > > > > > > > the public
> > > > > > > > schools, as they faze out will be a wreck. So at the same
> > > > > > > > time I think
> > > > > > > > additional funds would be needed to help them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: William H. Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:09 PM
> > > > > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Education
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Alright, I'll bite...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > and we'll start simple, one point at a time (one point at a
> > > > > > > time offer
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > valid in all states or states of mind... ;-)
> > > > > > > > How do you propose that these "privatized" schools
> > > > make money, not
> > > > > > > > necessarily profit mind you, but just meet operating
expenses.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > ----
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > William H. Bowen
> > > > > > > > Webmaster
> > > > > > > > ALSTOM's Energy Management & Markets Business
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Your friendly neighborhood Webmaster"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > > http://www.esca.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Kevin Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:01 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: My thoughts on Education
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Personally I am not a big fan of public education. My son
> > > > > > > > will attend
> > > > > > > > > private schools, unless there is a fundamental
> > > > change. I think
> > > > > > > > schools
> > > > > > > > > should be privatized.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Beth F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 12:56 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Slowly I crawl back....i'll be nice this
time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > its still happening - feel free to jump in with your
> > > > > > > > education system
> > > > > > > > > opinions at any time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "Kevin Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:47 AM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Slowly I crawl back....i'll be nice this time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ok I'm back....in the words of Eminem...life just
> > > > > > isn't any fun
> > > > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > > me. :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I see I missed one of my favorite debates when I
> > > > looked at the
> > > > > > > > > archives,
> > > > > > > > > > our public education system! Darn it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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