Lets see, 8 years of steadily decreasing the national debt must have some impact on the economy.
At 05:02 PM 5/31/02 -0500, you wrote: >Just the thought of Clinton taking credit for any ecomonic expansion makes >me laugh. Surely none of us here would believe such a blatantly untrue >statement. > > . .and I have a bridge to sell you too ;) > >Nate Nielsen >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Larry C. Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 4:38 PM >Subject: Re: My thoughts on Education > > > > Simple comparison, how many investigations were made of the Clinton > > administration during his two terms in office. Compare that with the >Reagan > > administration. Which administration had 29 felony convictions as an > > outcome of those investigations, and which one had only one indictment? > > I'll give you a hint, Reagan's administration had far more than one >felony > > conviction during its tenure in office. > > > > Another comparison. Which administration ran up the largest debt since the > > great depression and which one all but eliminated that debt? > > > > Simple questions no? > > > > If you use the exact same standard for both administrations, economically > > the Clinton administration presided over the largest economic expansion > > since the 1920's. The national economy actually shrank during Reagan's >term. > > > > Now which administration was the more successful of the 2? > > > > At 04:38 PM 5/31/02 -0500, you wrote: > > >The comment "They were failures in Texas and now he's trying to achieve >the > > >same failure nationally." is not only un-founded, it is ridiculous and >plain > > >argumentative. > > > > > >I personally feel there has been no greater tragedy to this country than >the > > >Clinton/Gore team - yet others loved them. With eight years of >opportunity > > >to fix such problems, you still have the nerve to criticize someone >trying > > >to accomplish the goals you (key word : STILL) strive for. Will it be > > >perfect? Likely not, but a step in the right direction, I think so. > > > > > >Even though I personally hold Clinton and Gore in high contempt for their > > >poor performance, I believe deep down that they did not actually ~try~ to > > >achieve their failures - I think every man has good intentions in their >own > > >right, including those that I detest such as them. > > > > > >Furthermore, I live in TX, and can honestly say that the only reason I >would > > >ever want Bush out of office, is that I could enjoy his level-headed > > >politics as Governor. The fact remains that the over-all Texas education > > >scores rose with the changes he made. There were a number of positive > > >changes such as increased salaries and holding teachers responsible for > > >their students performance that even democrats have cried for. As >president > > >I look forward to some long-needed changes that I think he has and will > > >deliver. > > > > > >Where do you get off saying such comments as "now he's trying to . . ."? > > >Such mud-slinging doesn't belong in a debate or reasonable conversational > > >argument. It's so poor in character, it hardly even a response. > > > > > >bleh.. . heh > > > > > >Nate Nielsen > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Larry Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 3:42 PM > > >Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > I'm reporting on my own experience as an educational researcher. I was > > > > brought in by contract funded by a private foundation. part of our >report > > > > directly linked the educational performance of Houston area schools >with > > > > policies initiated by the Bush administration when he was governor of > > >Texas. > > > > Specific withdrawal of reading readiness program funding is one >example. > > > > > > > > I have always thought that past performance is the best predictor of > > >present > > > > or future performance. Reading Governor Bush's past performance on > > >education > > > > so far is turning out to be a very good predictor of his current and > > >future > > > > education policies. They were failures in Texas and now he's trying to > > > > achieve the same failure nationally. > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > > EBStor.com > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Nate Nielsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 3:43 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since we have brought Bush into the conversation out of left > > > > > field - heheh. > > > > > I thought I would post this non-biased link of the campaign > > > > > comparisons of > > > > > Al and George for education. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/resources/where.they.stand/in > > > > > dex.html#educa > > > > > tion > > > > > > > > > > Of course the most obvious difference would be Gore spending > > > > > 100 times more > > > > > money than Bush. > > > > > > > > > > I guess I am one of those "less government" people. =P It seems >the > > > > > democrats are hell bent on turning america into a communist > > > > > nation, after > > > > > all - if we continue this dangerous democratic spending > > > > > behavior and unfair > > > > > economic based taxing, eventually we will all make the same > > > > > exact amount of > > > > > money, and the government will control it. *sigh* > > > > > > > > > > I realize that there are needs to be met, programs that we > > > > > socially need - > > > > > but where does it end? > > > > > > > > > > And in advance before anyone gets their panties in a wad - I am not > > > > > attacking anyone, republican or democrat - I am simply opening the > > > > > discussion based on the spending and taxing differences > > > > > between the parties. > > > > > I still love you demo's - if we only had one part, boy would we be >in > > > > > trouble - lol > > > > > > > > > > Nate Nielsen > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Larry Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:08 PM > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you mean by government. Those programs that I saw > > > > > that worked > > > > > > required Government involvement. I object to poor > > > > > involvement not none. > > > > > for > > > > > > example, the failures I saw in the Houston school system > > > > > could be directly > > > > > > attributable to the government of Governor George W. Bush's > > > > > non-involvement > > > > > > in education. That is a prime example of your wanting to > > > > > get government > > > > > out > > > > > > of the schools. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > > > > EBStor.com > > > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:58 PM > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Do you see a pattern to all the things you like > > > > > > > though Larry, > > > > > > > parent involvement, volunteers, etc. They don't involve the > > > > > > > government. > > > > > > > Get the government out of education and I think you will see > > > > > > > the system > > > > > > > improve dramatically. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:53 PM > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are magnet schools in almost every school district > > > > > specifically > > > > > > > intended for this purpose. Frequently these magnet schools are >far > > > > > > > better > > > > > > > institutions than most private schools. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover I strongly disagree with backwarding (confining to the > > > > > > > equivalent > > > > > > > of the back ward in a psych hospital) kids in public > > > > > schools. Their > > > > > > > development is as important as every other kid's. Your > > > > > experience is > > > > > > > typical. There just was not enough help in the school room. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One proposal has been to use classroom assistants to reduce the > > > > > > > teacher-student ratio. thus when teachers have to deal > > > > > with special > > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > students who have, the assistants can pick up the slack. > > > > > They can be > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > paid or volunteer aides. Another > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another way of alleviating this is to use parents to help > > > > > out in the > > > > > > > schools. One of the best things I saw in a couple of the schools >I > > > > > > > looked at > > > > > > > on this project in Houston was parental involvement. That had >the > > > > > > > greatest > > > > > > > impact on the student school performance. We saw > > > > > significant increases > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > attendance, for all kids not just the kids of the aide, > > > > > both school > > > > > > > grades > > > > > > > and standardized test performances also showed significant > > > > > > > improvement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've also done parallel analyses on some of the NORC data > > > > > > > (http://www.NORC.org) using a population of about 3000 > > > > > 5th through 8th > > > > > > > graders, in the cohort years 1987 through 1990, and found > > > > > very similar > > > > > > > results. Parental involvement and teacher-student ratio had a >much > > > > > > > greater > > > > > > > influence on subsequent academic performance. They had > > > > > > > considerably more > > > > > > > influence than for instance whether the student went to a > > > > > public or > > > > > > > private > > > > > > > school or socio-economic status. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > > > > > EBStor.com > > > > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > > > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:31 PM > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want just choice. I want to see privatized schools > > > > > > > that cater > > > > > > > > to those with problems. There were many times that I was > > > > > > > held up in a > > > > > > > > class because a teacher had to cater to someone else who > > > > > > > wasn't at the > > > > > > > > same level. Albeit that didn't happen as much in the AP > > > > > > > > classes I took. > > > > > > > > Have a school that caters to gifted children and gives them > > > > > > > > the specific > > > > > > > > attention they need and have a school that gives specific > > > > > > > attention to > > > > > > > > those who have needs in other areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:25 PM > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes the Wonderful world of vouchers, the panacea of all of our > > > > > > > > educational > > > > > > > > woes. Do I hear skimming here? No private school is required > > > > > > > > to take the > > > > > > > > special needs kids that public schools are required to do > > > > > > > so by law. I > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > have no problem with vouchers if the exact same > > > > > standards for public > > > > > > > > education are applied to private schools in order to > > > > > > > receive vouchers. > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > includes all constitutionality issues and issues of free > > > > > > > access. Your > > > > > > > > local > > > > > > > > religious school would have to deal with those kids with > > > > > > > tourettes or > > > > > > > > Autism > > > > > > > > or ADHD etc at certain minimal standards or those kids who > > > > > > > > get fed as an > > > > > > > > afterthought, instead of not allowing them in the school in > > > > > > > the first > > > > > > > > place. > > > > > > > > if a sectarian school, or any private school want to > > > > > get government > > > > > > > > money or > > > > > > > > services then they have to follow minimal standards. I would > > > > > > > > not be too > > > > > > > > surprised if the exact same standards have to be met by > > > > > > > > private schools, > > > > > > > > most will quickly drop out. Quite rapidly this so-called > > > > > > > school choice > > > > > > > > becomes no choice at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > > > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > > > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > > > > > > EBStor.com > > > > > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > > > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > > > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > > > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > > > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > > > > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > > > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 2:11 PM > > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The wonderful world of vouchers. I get the same amount of > > > > > > > > tax dollars > > > > > > > > > that is spent on my son to go to public school. Of > > > > > course this > > > > > > > > > transition takes time and you have to do it right. >Otherwise > > > > > > > > > the public > > > > > > > > > schools, as they faze out will be a wreck. So at the same > > > > > > > > > time I think > > > > > > > > > additional funds would be needed to help them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > From: William H. Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 1:09 PM > > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alright, I'll bite... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and we'll start simple, one point at a time (one point at a > > > > > > > > time offer > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > valid in all states or states of mind... ;-) > > > > > > > > > How do you propose that these "privatized" schools > > > > > make money, not > > > > > > > > > necessarily profit mind you, but just meet operating >expenses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William H. Bowen > > > > > > > > > Webmaster > > > > > > > > > ALSTOM's Energy Management & Markets Business > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Your friendly neighborhood Webmaster" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > http://www.esca.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Kevin Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:01 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: My thoughts on Education > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally I am not a big fan of public education. My son > > > > > > > > > will attend > > > > > > > > > > private schools, unless there is a fundamental > > > > > change. I think > > > > > > > > > schools > > > > > > > > > > should be privatized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: Beth F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 12:56 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Slowly I crawl back....i'll be nice this >time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its still happening - feel free to jump in with your > > > > > > > > > education system > > > > > > > > > > opinions at any time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: "Kevin Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:47 AM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Slowly I crawl back....i'll be nice this time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok I'm back....in the words of Eminem...life just > > > > > > > isn't any fun > > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > > me. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see I missed one of my favorite debates when I > > > > > looked at the > > > > > > > > > > archives, > > > > > > > > > > > our public education system! Darn it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-community@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
