What he said :) On Feb 15, 2013 3:43 PM, "Bruce Sorge" <sor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Fine Justin, here. Oh, I just went to the HOF site and found the > discussion. Cut and paste. > > 1. Physical Conditioning: While I do not doubt that there are women in the > world who can perform as well or better than men in athletics, the majority > cannot. I'll use the standard Army Physical Fitness standards for males and > females in the 17-21 age category, which is the age bracket most people > join the military. > > Mens standards: > Pushup event - two minutes - minimum standard is 42, 90% is 64 and 100% is > 71 > Sit-up event - two minutes - minimum 53, 90% is 72 and 100% is 78 > Run event - two miles - minimum is 15:54, 90% is 13:42 and 100% is 13:00 > > Females standards: > Pushup event - two minutes - minimum standard is 19, 90% is 36 and 100% is > 42 > Situp event - two minutes - minimum 53, 90% is 72 and 100% is 78 > Run event - two miles - minimum is 18:54, 90% is 16:24 and 100% is 15:36 > > You can clearly see that the pushup and run events are vastly different. > The only thing that women have to do as well as men is the sit-up event. In > fact, a female can max her time in a little less than what it takes a male > to pass the minimum. > The reason I bring up the 90% range is because in the Infantry, 90%, or a > total score of 270 is OUR standard. It's not a written official standard, > it's the standard that we hold ourselves to. One of the reasons is that if > you want to try out for the Expert Infantryman's Badge, you have to score a > MINIMUM of 270 on the PT test. > > 2. Now let's get into some other physical aspects of the job. > Infantry often will be walking for miles on end with a rucksack weighing > from 60 - 100 lbs, sometimes more. Soldiers going through Ranger School > will carry even more weight. That is a lot to ask of a woman who does not > have to have the same physical endurance level of a man. > > Armor has it's own set of challenges. Their ammunition weighs from 41 - 50 > lbs depending on what type of ammunition it is, and a tank carries 48 > rounds. So as a loader you would be expected to have to help load 48 rounds > into a tank to make it ready for combat. And a loader is expected to be > able to load a tank in a few seconds (that's putting a round in the breach > from the ammunition rack). This is done in a very confined space and the > rounds are awkward to hold. The M-2 machine-gun that sits on the commanders > cupola weighs in at 84lbs. This has to be hoisted up onto the tank, then to > the turret, then mounted on the machine-gun mount. Not an easy task for a > physically fit man. > > Artillery has it's own set of challenges as well. Their ammunition weighs > in at 106 lbs and they carry 28 rounds on the vehicle (this is an M-109 > Paladin SPH). Again the loader is expected to be able to load a round every > 15 seconds, sometimes faster. > > Tanks and artillery also have a LOT of heavy components to them. Breaking > track is something that a crew of four men in a tank, three in a Bradley > and four in a Howitzer, all in top shape struggle to do quickly. > > 3. Now let's talk hygiene. We all know that women have special hygienic > needs. From bathing on a regular basis to managing menses, all of these > things that are taken for granted at home are a challenge in the field. > Often a combat arms soldier will go days and weeks, sometimes over a month > without a proper shower in a training environment. In combat it's worse. At > the opening of OEF and OIF soldiers often would go weeks without being able > to have a proper shower. Fortunately for men all we really need are some > baby wipes to wipe our pits and junk and were good. This is not the case > with women. There are studies that show that women require more time to > clean themselves properly than men do. A quick google search will produce a > lot of results. > > 4. Now lets talk about the general climate of combat arms jobs. These are > jobs (Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Special Forces, Delta Force, Ranger) that > are only open to men and thus the workplace is a men only workplace. It's > no myth that soldiers are crude and obnoxious to the outsider. Infantrymen > do some strange things and say pretty much anything that is on their minds > and no one really cares. (And I know some female soldiers who could give a > male soldier a run for his money on shit talking as well, this is not an > area where men have a lock). Anyway, there are way too many females in the > Army who would be highly offended by some of the things we say or do on a > regular basis. The words shit and fuck are part of everyday vocabulary to > us. There is a constant climate of one upmanship that is alive and well in > the infantry. We all want to be faster, better than the man to our right > and left. Everything is a competition in the infantry, whether it's eating, > doing PT or doing regular infantry shit, we are ALWAYS competing with each > other. > > Now again, with this all being said, I am not saying that there are not > SOME women out there would could thrive in this environment, but I feel > that they are the exception and not the norm. The military would be hard > pressed not to have two standards for men and women. In fact, they already > to, the PT test. That is a great example of the double-standard that the > Army has. > > While Israel is a good example of women performing well in combat arms, > again I think that they are the exception rather than the norm. Israelis > are raised with conflict. Men and women there, at least the last couple of > generations and the generations to come are raised around war. Bombs, > shootings and the like. They have a different mentality than women in > America have (my own opinion not based on fact). I honestly believe that > women in general in American will fail more than succeed if they are held > to the same standard as men. Even Ranger School, there is no exception to > the standard. WHether it is me as a 49 year old Infantryman trying out for > the coveted Ranger tab, or an 18 year old kid, we both have to perform at > the same standard, that of the 18 year olds. From my experience in my 17+ > years in the Army, the standards will be lowered and morale will go down if > women are allowed in combat arms. ' > On Feb 15, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Justin Scott <leviat...@darktech.org> wrote: > > > > >> We've already had this discussion. > > > > I see, you must not feel very strongly about it if you're not even > > willing to give a summary for those like myself who weren't in on the > > prior discussion. Have a great weekend! > > > > > > -Justin > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:361396 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
