Any time. It's one of those issues that seems clear cut to those outside of Israel but are not and are so multi-leveled that it can give you an aneurism. :)
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 8:29 AM, GMoney <[email protected]> wrote: > > Interesting. > > Thanks. > > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Michael Dinowitz < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I'm of a couple of minds on this. First we need to get some facts stated: > > 1. There are already a number of religious, even 'ultra-orthodox', in the > > military already. There are even special units designed to handle the > needs > > of the religious while in the military. There are Yeshivas with programs > > that combine learning with military service. > > 2. The military does not want more religious in the military. They are > not > > equipped to handle their needs. There are also many forces that are > > confronting any attempt to move the religious into the military. You have > > the feminists who are forcing confrontations that break the religious > laws > > of modesty. You have brass who do not want a huge influx of religious > > officers, especially in the higher ranks. You have the anti-religious who > > see this as a perfect place to strip these 'ignorant orthodox' of their > > 'medieval religious ideas'. The list goes on. > > 3. While some of the 'ultra-orthodox' yeshivas are part of a program that > > combine learning with military, there are others who hold that learning > > Torah is as important to the preservation of the state as those who > carry a > > gun. They do not want the secular problems and forces of the military > > getting in the way of that learning. Israel stands due to the Torah and > > without the Torah, Israel will fall > > 4. Lapid is an anti-religious dick. He's always been an anti-religious > > dick. He takes great delight in it. Rather than try and work with the > > programs that already exist, he's tearing them all down just to satisfy > his > > own agenda. He sees a civil war as a good thing as it will get rid of > those > > 'pesky religious'. No joke. > > 5. In Jewish law, there are few laws more important than saving a life. > > I've seen people run out of synagogue on Yom Kippur in order to jump in a > > car and race off to save someones life. They can break many religious > laws > > to do that - and only that. > > 6. This was not a vote of conscience, ideal, or popularity. It was forced > > along party lines with with strict party discipline in effect. One person > > breaking who broke ranks was severely punished for it. Even parties who > > might have voted against it were 'forced' to due to deals with Lapid - > > deals that got them into the ruling coalition. > > > > So my thoughts are that Lapid and those of his ilk have forced a crisis > > that no one wants, bypassed the solutions already in place, bypassed any > > attempt at compromise, and brought even more strife to Israel. If there > > were a need for these students in the military then I'm all for forcing > > them into one of the learning/military programs, but there is no need. > The > > current military is of sufficient level to protect the state and the > > reserves are more than adequate to supplement that. If someone sees > > themselves as supporting the state by learning Torah while forgoing the > > privileges that a military stint gives, then I see no reason to force > them > > - as long as they are not needed for the physical defense of the people. > > > > Personally, I think that every religious person of the allowable age > should > > go into the military right away. This will force the military's hand and > > they will either have to cope the the supply/demand or send them all > home. > > If they cope, then the power shift in Israeli society due to so many > > religious in the military and then in places they go after the military > > (politics, police, etc) will reshape the entire country - and no one > wants > > that. > > > > BTW, the term ultra-orthodox is a loaded one and is used to negatively > > portray the religious in different ways. The telegraph stated that this > was > > a secular vs. ultra-orthodox battle, implying that the ultra-orthodox > > represented ALL religious and compounded their portrayal by saying that > the > > ultra-orthodox was only 10%, implying that the secular was 90%. While one > > may be able to say that the ultra-orthodox is 10% (as represented by a > > specific Yeshiva based lifestyle), this percentage does NOT include all > of > > the other orthodox who are not considered ultra. In other words, the > > telegraph is playing fast and loose here with the facts. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM, GMoney <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/pcldosy > > > > > > Dino, your thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:369565 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
